Berliner Trademark Evolution Question

[Zwebie]

The latest Berliner "Improved Gramophone" I've observed is #34983, and it carries a celluloid plate where the Berliner decal is typically mounted (on occasion, the decal can been seen beneath these plates). These celluloid plates are labeled "Berliner Gramophone Company, Philadelphia, PA, U.S.A." with no mention of the National Gramo. Corp. Only the very last Berliners will be found with these celluloid plates on the cabinet.

Hope this helps - -

George P.

WOW George, look at this! #35523

[phonogfp]

Thanks Bob, but isn't that a Johnson Type B?

George P.

[Zwebie]

Thanks Bob, but isn't that a Johnson Type B?

George P.

Yes George, but it has the five screw spring case that was used on the "late" Berliners and the Johnson "Consolidated Talking Machine Co." Trademarks with the celluloid tag!

Was Johnson using up "old-stock" to produce the first ERJ "Fluer-de-lis" B's?

Bob S.

[gramophone78]

Bob,
I have a question regarding your type B. The last two digits on the data plate appear to have been re-stamped. The last digit...."9" you can make out what seems to be the number "1". Do you think the factory did this to match the the spring barrel marked with "B"...??.

[Zwebie]

Bob,
I have a question regarding your type B. The last two digits on the data plate appear to have been re-stamped. The last digit...."9" you can clearly make out the number "1". Do you think the factory did this to match the the spring barrel marked with "B"...??.

Wayne, that's the million dollar question!
When I purchased this machine years ago, all metal parts were painted with a heavy coating of zinc fence paint.
When I cleaned them up they look as they do now.
Anything is possible on a machine this old. Possible guesses are: Factory done repair?, Aftermarket repair?, Collector/Restorer repair?
It all adds to the unique history of the item, but I guess I'll never know.
I was encouraged to see another ERJ "Fluer-de-lis" "B" with the same motor.

Bob S.

[gramophone78]

Bob,
I have a question regarding your type B. The last two digits on the data plate appear to have been re-stamped. The last digit...."9" you can clearly make out the number "1". Do you think the factory did this to match the the spring barrel marked with "B"...??.

Wayne, that's the million dollar question!
When I purchased this machine years ago, all metal parts were painted with a heavy coating of zinc fence paint.
When I cleaned them up they look as they do now.
Anything is possible on a machine this old. Possible guesses are: Factory done repair?, Aftermarket repair?, Collector/Restorer repair?
It all adds to the unique history of the item, but I guess I'll never know.
I was encouraged to see another ERJ "Fluer-de-lis" "B" with the same motor.

Bob S.

Very interesting Bob. Have you looked at the last two digits on the data plate with a loupe...?. Could they have been 51 originally..??. I won't be surprise if Johnson used up existing motors that were assembled and already stamped in sequence in his new Type B. If so, I wonder if some motors were used in the type A and stamped with an A over the J...???.
What a great mystery indeed... .