O/T Aeolian pianola

[recordo]

To answer the above question: tune the piano - reed organs (harmoniums and American Organs) and their related cousins never really go out of tune...I used to have an Aeolian Orchestrelle, (Roll playing Organ) and it never went out of tune.

I guess that all of us that love gramophones/phonographs and player pianos (and reproducers, etc) also love TRAINS!

[JohnM]

Has anyone ever seen a reed organ (non-player) equipped with a stop that engages an octave of keyboard-actuated saucer bells? A gentleman who lives close to us has one.

[larryh]

Has anyone ever seen a reed organ (non-player) equipped with a stop that engages an octave of keyboard-actuated saucer bells? A gentleman who lives close to us has one.

John,

Yes those combination Bell organs were rather rare I would think. I saw one that sat at an antique mall for some time near me until someone finally bought it. If I didn't already have a nice Chicago Cottage Organ I would have considered it, but I don't have room even for the Chicago at this time and really would like to move it on, but they are not very popular as most of us know.

Larry

[larryh]

Here is a ad for the Angelus Orchestral which is the push up player that contained a set of reeds above the player which you can see as a raised box on the top. Too bad this ad isn't even readable in the book I have it in, maybe it will come out a bit better here, but I doubt it. The ad does say you can play it as just a piano player alone or with the reed organ along with the piano. How one decided to tune the piano or organ would be a real problem I would guess and may have made them quickly out of favor. Angelus made lots of standard push ups that didn't contain the organ feature as well.

Larry

[larryh]

Long as were on the Push Up Player thread here is a ad from a Welte Catalog for the first push up reproducing player I ever had. Wish I still had it as so many other things! But you can't keep everything and I never could work on them, so they are problematic to own. A local Aeolian store had this type Cabinet Style Welte for sale when I was barely out of high school. A local Convent had sold it to them and they in turn sold it to me. It was rebuilt locally but never properly and eventually I sold it to the Bellum Musical Museum which was in Florida where I understand it preformed for many years. Recently I had a call from a fellow in California who ask me if I was the party that had owned this machine long ago and was interested in the history if I knew any. He had purchased it when the Museum folded and was in the process of having it completely restored. He said he would keep in touch an let me have some recordings of it when it was done, but I never heard any more about it. Would be interesting to hear what happened with it. These Weltes were the first reproducing system invented by Edwin Welte in Germany in 1904. Amazing for that time for sure. Recently we visited a fellow in Terre Haute Indiana who has a rebuilt Welte Push up of the original full to the floor cabinet type which was the first one. The later Buffet type cabinet was made as far as I know in New York by the American branch of the company in the teens. They could do quite well and I have always had a soft spot for Welte players, but never have had one that was working perfectly.

[JohnM]

There is a fine example of a Welte Vorsetzer that performs at the Nethercutt Collection (aka The Merle Norman Tower of Beauty aka San Sylmar) in California. Are the Vorsetzers green roll mechanisms or red roll? Were they made in both formats? -- I can't recall. What was yours, Larry?

[larryh]

John,

The older style floor length cabinets were the Red Roll Welte's. Which makes them harder to find rolls for. The one I have posted the literature on is a design that used the latter De Luxe and Welte rolls of the more standard types, so a much larger and easier to find group of rolls available. I am not familiar with the machine your mentioning but I would guess its the earlier floor length cabinet? Those would be red rolls. Mine is with a private collector whom I understand has an extensive collection in San Francisco, but his name escapes me, I think it was Ken but not 100%. Its been a few years since he called and I haven't heard anything since, and don't as usual know where I have the contact information I had at that time.

Larry

[JohnM]

The example at San Sylmar is a 'hump-top' model as opposed to a buffet-cabinet style. It sits in front of an extremely fancy straight-sided European grand with mastodon ivory keys that was built for a ruler of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. A delight to the eye as well as the ear!

[Lenoirstreetguy]

My dear Shane...as a piano technician my ears are bleeding. You call that tuner right now...and be prepared to have him weep bitter tears before he gets the thing tuned. It will take two tunings before it stabilizes.
That said push ups are such a lot of fun! , Does yours have the Themodist?,,the device that accentuates the melody> I'm sure it has the Metrostyle which is the pointer thingy which attempts to add expression to the playing.It's rather like playing a video game as you follow the red line on the roll with the pointer but you'll find that as you practice your interpretations will get better and better. And another thing: I have always thought that the push up players produce a more natural piano tone than the internal actions. Not I mean the reproducing actions, but the standard player actions There is something about the pneumatic acting directly on the wippen that makes them sound less real, if ya asks me . My " dream machine" would be an 88 note push up Themodist Pianola. I have heard one and if they are tight, AND with a good roll AND if you practice you can produce a performance that is uncannily like a professional player. The Aeolian Company in London sponsored a series of " Proms" concerts with Henry Wood conducting wherein a push up player was installed in front of the concert grand and an Aeolian employee treadled through a movement from one of the standard concerti! Great fun.
I'm attaching a scan of the roll catalogue as you will see. It's actually a hard bound book. Aeolian was a class act!!
Jim

[gramophoneshane]

Larry,
That Steinway is magnificent! I'll swap ya
It must sound fantastic. That Welte you posted is the nicest PUPP I've ever seen. I sure would like to find one of those! Sadly though, if it were mine, no doubt the top would quickly end up getting covered with old junk
The PUPP I used to play at the local museum in high school was an Angelus. I cant remember why now, but the fellow who restored it warned me against buying an Angelus in particular, but also told me that if I ever bought one, to only ever get an Aeolian...that bit I remember lol.
I know the Angelus had a worn drive gear for the take-up spool that was visible, and I think (?) it shifted across to throw it into rewind mode. Im not sure if that was "the" major fault with them, or if it was the mechanics as a whole being a bad design, or even if they used pot metal parts or what now, but he seemed to think they were trouble. Unfortunately, being 15 at the time & thinking I'd probably never find one, his reasons didn't store in my memory banks well at all- especially 30 years later

Recordo,
The fellow I bought my Aeolian from, has a fully restored Orchestrelle. It's the Model Y, and what a huge beast of a machine that is. It wouldn't fit in a modern house being 8'4" high, but what awesome sound it produces!.
I think I could easily get into the peddle music gig (if I had the room & the dollars)

Ah Jim...I was thinking of you when I said I hoped not to offend anyones ears
It's shocking isn't it! I have to admit I had a bit of a chuckle shortly after uploading the youtube video, when I read a comment saying what "nice sound & tone" it has lol.
I dont have themodist OR metrostyle on this. I think I missed out on metrostyle by a year or two.
All I have is soft pedal, permanent soft pedal, speed & play/rewind. I dont even have a loud pedal on this one. A lot of the rolls I have are themodist &/or metrostyle, but the early ones I have that were meant for this, just have soft & normal printed to the right.
I wish you hadn't shown me that catalogue. I want one now...as if I haven't got enough useless crap already

Here's the pics I promised. I'm still working on the cabinet, so had to put it all bach together to take them. It gave me a chance to play with the prototype soft pedal plunger I'm making though