Tings-tone stylus yes or no?

[Edisonfan]

Yes it was!

[startgroove]

I think there may have been someone making tungsten needles for the early jukeboxes. I have a couple that are not the style Victor made. They have a straight shank, instead of the shank with a thin section. One was found in a 1928 Electramuse, the other was found on inside floor of a 1929 Mill Hi-Boy. Obviously there are no markings on either, so I cannot tell who made them. I suppose it is possible they really are Victor made.

The one at the top is a Victor Tungstone, the other two are different.

[drh]

I think there may have been someone making tungsten needles for the early jukeboxes. I have a couple that are not the style Victor made. They have a straight shank, instead of the shank with a thin section. One was found in a 1928 Electramuse, the other was found on inside floor of a 1929 Mill Hi-Boy. Obviously there are no markings on either, so I cannot tell who made them. I suppose it is possible they really are Victor made.

The one at the top is a Victor Tungstone, the other two are different.

Unless I am much mistaken, Victor made Tungs-tone styli in both "straight" and "wasp waist" configurations. The former were loud tone; the latter were softer tone, depending on the thinness of the waist. I believe the more common material for "multi-play" needles was chromium, said to be good for 5 or 6 sides, presumably because it was cheaper. (At least, that's usually the reason for a given choice of materials--witness everybody's favorite, pot metal! )

[JerryVan]

As stated earlier in this thread, "Steel wears down faster, than tungsten. Probably why Victor touted you could get 300 plays..."

My understanding has always been that the steel was intended to wear down, in order to conform itself to the shape of the groove. The steel needle was essentially the sacrificial component, sparing the record. When a needle lasts 300 plays, what then becomes the sacrificial element? I guess the argument can be made that an Edison diamond stylus, (which lasts far beyond 300 plays), should suggest that the record is the sacrificial element as well, which in practice, doesn't really seem to be the case. My thinking is that Victor records, made during the Tungs-Tone era, were formulated to perform well with Tungs-Tone needles, (as others have already suggested), just as Edison records were designed to work with their respective styli.

[Edisonfan]

As stated earlier in this thread, "Steel wears down faster, than tungsten. Probably why Victor touted you could get 300 plays..."

My understanding has always been that the steel was intended to wear down, in order to conform itself to the shape of the groove. The steel needle was essentially the sacrificial component, sparing the record. When a needle lasts 300 plays, what then becomes the sacrificial element? I guess the argument can be made that an Edison diamond stylus, (which lasts far beyond 300 plays), should suggest that the record is the sacrificial element as well, which in practice, doesn't really seem to be the case. My thinking is that Victor records, made during the Tungs-Tone era, were formulated to perform well with Tungs-Tone needles, (as others have already suggested), just as Edison records were designed to work with their respective styli.

You got it Jerry!

[electrolaman 64]

Here is a company that had long lasting needles that beagn production as early as 1918. Later did a redesign in 1923. I have 6 boxes of these and recently tried a couple. I am playing Victor Scroll dance records and a few 30s HMVs. They sound absolutely fabulous and what I did notice right off is that I get absolutely no black grit off the needle at all after any plays. Nothing, nada! I cannot say that about Victor Tungstone needles.

Tonofone made by R.C. Wade Company in Chicago, IL.

Although I would not follow the instructions about turning the needle. Noooooooo!

[Benjamin_L]

Didn't mean any aggression in my comment, Paul, excuse me if it came off that way.

I don't remember where I read that tungsten breaks down over time, it was awhile back, either here on the forum or a Facebook group. I took it as truth as it seemed serious to me, that tungsten can have a similar effect like pot-metal, that's the idea I got.

I might have misunderstood or just completely botched what the topic was.

[Edisonfan]

That’s quite alright Ben. I didn’t know you were part of this forum? I must admit I was a bit shocked? Also, I was afraid of getting into a conflict over this, without backing my facts up first. That’s when I came here to talk with fellow collectors about this, and also deleted my video. Thinking, was I wrong? Then it struck me, drill bits are made out of tungsten, combined with carbon. Tungsten carbide is also made with Nickel, to made rings (wedding bands). Tungsten is so hard, that it can withstand enormous pressure, and heat. It’s why, Edison eventually settled on it for his light bulbs. Also a ring made out of tungsten can not, be resized. It’s not as soft as gold or silver.

As for the tungs-tone stylus. The tungsten will eventually ware down after 50-300 plays. At least according to the Victor talking machine adverts. The best way to use the stylus, is with a Victor Tungs-tone record. Or an early Victor VE record. Which were manufactured before World War 2. Also, it is suggested too turn the stylus after so many plays, too help the tungsten ware evenly.

I would not have posted that video, without doing an experiment first, and talk with fellow collectors.

We all make mistakes, but we can learn from them. It helps learning from what other collectors have done.

[Benjamin_L]

That’s quite alright Ben. I didn’t know you were part of this forum? I must admit I was a bit shocked? Also, I was afraid of getting into a conflict over this, without backing my facts up first. That’s when I came here to talk with fellow collectors about this, and also deleted my video. Thinking, was I wrong? Then it struck me, drill bits are made out of tungsten, combined with carbon. Tungsten carbide is also made with Nickel, to made rings (wedding bands). Tungsten is so hard, that it can withstand enormous pressure, and heat. It’s why, Edison eventually settled on it for his light bulbs. Also a ring made out of tungsten can not, be resized. It’s not as soft as gold or silver.

As for the tungs-tone stylus. The tungsten will eventually ware down after 50-300 plays. At least according to the Victor talking machine adverts. The best way to use the stylus, is with a Victor Tungs-tone record. Or an early Victor VE record. Which were manufactured before World War 2. Also, it is suggested too turn the stylus after so many plays, too help the tungsten ware evenly.

I would not have posted that video, without doing an experiment first, and talk with fellow collectors.

We all make mistakes, but we can learn from them. It helps learning from what other collectors have done.

I've always had terrible experiences with tungsten needles. I have a few of Victors and also one or two of the Aeolian version and could never get them to work for me, as a few look to still have a pretty firm point, but I've just given up on them.

[Edisonfan]

That’s understandable!

Some of the guys in this thread have mentioned other types of tungsten needles.

However if you prefer a steel needle, then stick with that.