Skipping problem with vertical cut record

[randymullx]

I have a Path'e record I would like to play so I purchased a sapphire stylus and gave it a whirl but all I'm getting is a lot of skipping. The talking machine I'm using is a Raymond Phonograph that was "made" in Atlanta. Raymond is one of three brands of Georgia talking machines I have identified and if anyone else is interested in machines "made" in GA, I would love to compare notes. Anyway...back to the subject at hand....the Raymond is the only working machine I have at the moment that can rotate to the vertical position. I'm reasonably sure the tone arm and reproducer were made by Mutual and the machine works just fine in the lateral position with a steel needle. To me, the sapphire looks too large to track grooves but I'm really not that familiar with vertical cut disks. Are there different sizes (other than the shank) for these sapphire styli based upon the age of the recording? Could this be a faulty stylus, bad disk or something else wrong?
Thanks,
Randy

[drh]

Pathé records had extremely broad, shallow grooves; if the player's geometry isn't set up just right, they do tend to skate like crazy. Also, that record in the photo looks as if it's heavily worn, possibly even damaged by being played with steel needles. I find that Pathé records usually don't play well unless they look close to pristine.

[52089]

Two other things to consider. First, make sure your tonearm moves in all directions without the slightest resistance. Second, make sure the turntable is level. The very shallow grooves in the Pathé record will only "drive" the tonearm if everything is set up properly.

[JimN]

Yes, the shallow grooves in Pathé records make skipping a common issue. If all else fails, prop up the left two legs of the phono slightly. That's what I used to do.

Jim Nichol

[alang]

I'm currently trying to transfer some vertical cut Pathé records to MP3 with a modern record player. Some work just fine, even old center start records, while others simply won't work. I tried every combination of anti-skate and stylus pressure, different stylus sizes, etc. without success. The tonearm simply skates across the record, either right away or somewhere during play. And strange enough, these records look pristine and don't work, while others that look worn and scratched play like a charm. I think on some the grooves are so shallow that everything needs to be perfect. I just don't understand how Pathé would have been able to sell them for 20 years if they are so finicky?

Andreas

[JerryVan]

I'm currently trying to transfer some vertical cut Pathé records to MP3 with a modern record player. Some work just fine, even old center start records, while others simply won't work. I tried every combination of anti-skate and stylus pressure, different stylus sizes, etc. without success. The tonearm simply skates across the record, either right away or somewhere during play. And strange enough, these records look pristine and don't work, while others that look worn and scratched play like a charm. I think on some the grooves are so shallow that everything needs to be perfect. I just don't understand how Pathé would have been able to sell them for 20 years if they are so finicky?

Andreas

Your modern record player can't come close to the relatively very high stylus pressure of the original Pathé tone arm. Nor will your stylus closely match the radius of the groove as the Pathé ball does. Have you tried the old trick of taping a nickel to the top of the tone arm?

[drh]

I'm currently trying to transfer some vertical cut Pathé records to MP3 with a modern record player. Some work just fine, even old center start records, while others simply won't work. I tried every combination of anti-skate and stylus pressure, different stylus sizes, etc. without success. The tonearm simply skates across the record, either right away or somewhere during play. And strange enough, these records look pristine and don't work, while others that look worn and scratched play like a charm. I think on some the grooves are so shallow that everything needs to be perfect. I just don't understand how Pathé would have been able to sell them for 20 years if they are so finicky?

Andreas

Your modern record player can't come close to the relatively very high stylus pressure of the original Pathé tone arm. Nor will your stylus closely match the radius of the groove as the Pathé ball does. Have you tried the old trick of taping a nickel to the top of the tone arm?

Well, it might match the radius; Expert and Esoteric both sell large-radius styli for playing Pathés with modern gear, and I'd guess Andreas would have one for a project like this. I've seen the same thing: Pathé discs in seemingly fine condition that just won't play on even high end modern turntables seemingly set up just right for them, and they will sometimes start out OK and then lurch into skating with no warning. Of all the records cut during the acoustic era, Pathés are the quirkiest and often the most frustrating. All those problems are why I usually play mine on acoustic machines. To the point of how Pathé sold them, I've never yet had a problem like that with a Pathé machine, either my Model 100 upright or my avatar-machine Diffusor (but the latter has a wimpy motor and often needs a touch-up cranking for the larger records, especially center start 14", and that must be done *very carefully* to avoid setting the stylus skating), so I'd guess people who bought Pathé machines and Pathé records for them were happy enough. People who bought other brands of machine would need an adapter and probably didn't bother with Pathé records too much. I *have* had the problem once in a while when playing them on my Victor V with a vertical cut adapter.

[JerryVan]

I'm currently trying to transfer some vertical cut Pathé records to MP3 with a modern record player. Some work just fine, even old center start records, while others simply won't work. I tried every combination of anti-skate and stylus pressure, different stylus sizes, etc. without success. The tonearm simply skates across the record, either right away or somewhere during play. And strange enough, these records look pristine and don't work, while others that look worn and scratched play like a charm. I think on some the grooves are so shallow that everything needs to be perfect. I just don't understand how Pathé would have been able to sell them for 20 years if they are so finicky?

Andreas

Your modern record player can't come close to the relatively very high stylus pressure of the original Pathé tone arm. Nor will your stylus closely match the radius of the groove as the Pathé ball does. Have you tried the old trick of taping a nickel to the top of the tone arm?

Well, it might match the radius; Expert and Esoteric both sell large-radius styli for playing Pathés with modern gear, and I'd guess Andreas would have one for a project like this.

Interesting! Didn't know that. Thanks!

[Wolfe]

If you are making MP3's of the Pathé discs, you can record them at, say, 33 ⅓ rpm and covert them to 78 (or 80 or whatever) in a program like Audacity. It's worked for me with probelmatic Pathé discs that don't want to track at 78.

[edisonplayer]

I've found that the vertical Pathé issues around the time of the US entry into WW1 especially have a hard time tracking.edisonplayer