Skipping problem with vertical cut record

[drh]

Well, it might match the radius; Expert and Esoteric both sell large-radius styli for playing Pathés with modern gear, and I'd guess Andreas would have one for a project like this.

Interesting! Didn't know that. Thanks!

Gladly! Here's a link to the page where you'll find the Esoteric one https://www.esotericsound.com/CartStyli.htm . I'm pasting in the info about it below. Note that when it says Pickering V-15, it means V-15 like the ones that came with the old KLH compact stereos, not the various incarnations of XV-15. Pickering and Stanton cartridges came in two basic body shapes, one roughly square in cross section and the other a tall rectangle. The "better" models (like the Stanton 681 or Pickering XV-15 series) were in the latter form factor. The Esoteric assemblies will *not* fit the taller style without surgery on the plastic grip block to remove two little "wings" that go over the top of the cartridge.

In other words, what you want is one like this: https://audio-database.com/PICKERING/etc/v-15-te-e.html

Not one like this: https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4745/397 ... c85f_z.jpg


The listing:

ATTENTION Pathé' RECORD LISTENERS!

REK-O-KUT D5180J 78 RPM STYLUS

CUSTOM STYLUS FITS STANTON 500 & PICKERING V-15 CARTRIDGES

"a...Pathé’...made its first noises in well over 50 years...happy to... hear the record instead of just look at it"

"The 8.0 mil stylus...working particularly well with the Pathé...marvelous, as though hearing them for the first time"


Owing to your demand we are now making available the 8 mil sapphire stylus from our Archival Elliptical Stylus Kit. For more details on them consult our listing for the Rek-O-Kut Archival Elliptical Stylus Kit above. Pricing is as follows.


D5180J: $195.00 (In Illinois add 8.00% IST)

USA Shipping & Ins: $12.25 (non-USA as above)


Non-USA shipping: 1st Class costs $14.75 (Canada - $10.50) and has no advertised delivery time, no insurance, no tracking available. Flat Rate Priority Mail costs $37.00 (Canada - $27.00) has been very reliable for us. The USPO advertise, but does not promise, 6 - 10 days delivery time with tracking, and $200.00 of free insurance.

[alang]

If you are making MP3's of the Pathé discs, you can record them at, say, 33 ⅓ rpm and covert them to 78 (or 80 or whatever) in a program like Audacity. It's worked for me with probelmatic Pathé discs that don't want to track at 78.

I will have to try that.

Thanks
Andreas

[gramophoneshane]

Is this more of a problem with US pressings, or it happens regardless of the records origin?

I only have about 6 US pressing, none of which skip, and of the approximately 250 other Pathé's in my collection, I've only encountered this problem with one disc, and it appears to be very slightly warped.

I only have two machines capable of playing vertical cut records, my American Pathé 10, and an off brand with an early all brass Fletcher tonearm without the rotating weight at the base, and both machines play these records just fine.

With so many records I would have thought I'd encounter this problem a lot more judging by comments made in this and other threads.
It makes me wonder if those who frequently have problems with skipping/skating using Pathé vertical cut disc should be checking their stylus, soundbox and tonearms for problems rather than blaming the discs themselves?

Surely if these discs behaved in this manner when they were new in the numbers they seem to now, people would have been returning records to dealers for a refund constantly.
I know if I bought a new record or CD today that wouldn't play properly, I certainly wouldn't keep it then go back and buy more.

[Wolfe]

Maybe stamper wear plays a part.

[randymullx]

I was wondering what role stylus pressure played but it doesn't appear to have much impact. I measured the needle pressure on a couple of Victors (both with Exhibition reproducers) and they were both in the range of 110 to 115 grams. The Mutual "outfit" on the talking machine in question is higher at about 145 grams in both the vertical and lateral positions. I tried increasing the pressure by about 15 grams and it didn't make any difference. I also tried propping up each side of the unit and again, no joy. The geometry looks very good in the lateral position and not very good at all in the vertical position which I assume to be a large part of my problem. The reproducer body appears to be in line with the record grooves in lateral position but isn't even close to being perpendicular to the record grooves in the vertical position. I'm sure there is always a compromise when a tone arm is designed to play either type of recording. Perhaps the geometry of a tone arm designed to primarily play vertical records is off when rotated to the lateral position just as one designed to primarily play lateral records is off when rotated to vertical??

[CarlosV]

Record wearout is the main contributor to skipping Pathés - assuming that the turntable is properly horizontal. The wear is most of the time quite visible in the form of lighter colored grooves, grey instead of black. If the record you are trying to play looks like that, then this is the cause. There are also different sapphire radii, the one shown on the photo is the one most commonly found today, but there are others, with smaller radii, however they are not easy to find, I got some NOS made in the 40s explicitly made to play Pathé records, and these track much better than the larger ones. You can find also original 100-year old sapphires, but it will be a roulette to get one that is not overly worn or chipped.

[edisonplayer]

Maybe stamper wear plays a part.

I've also found that some vertical Pathés from around the time of the first World War have a hard time tracking.I've also seen where one side would play fine,but the other side wouldn't.edisonplayer

[Allens Archive]

I`ve had the same problems playing them on my modern turntable. Even with the anti-skate turned up to the max the tone arm would skate. What I have had success with trying is tying a string to the tone arm and using a paperclip as a weight hanging over the side of the table as kind of a drag weight. It took some trial and error to get the string in the best place on the tone arm and the right amount of weight to use. Something like this may work on an old wind up phonograph too. Just something for the tone arm to kind of pull against.