Hello! Also Advice Needed to Solve Skipping On A Victrola 5H

[Mysteryoustraveler]

Hi Everyone!

I am new to The TMF and wanted to say "hello"! I am a newbie to this hobby of victrolas and "talking machines" and had purchased my first "picnic" Victrola (RCA Victrola 5H, I think) for $125 on my local Craigslist about 3 weeks ago. I have to say I am hooked and have been enjoying new music (to me) the "old school" way. I hope to upgrade to a Columbia BI or BH at some point but I have been really enjoying the suitcase Victrola.

However, I notice that when I change needles recently (I have soft, med and loud needles), the tone arm seems too heavy and causes the needle to skip no matter which needle I use. If I want to listen to a record all the way through without skipping, I have to gently lift and hold the tone arm upwards so that it will not skip. I have also noticed that the needles are picking up a lot of black on the first play, so I definitely change my needles with every play.

Does anyone know why the tone arm is doing this? Any simple fix I can do to remedy the issue?

Any suggestions is most appreciated!

Thank you,
Ivy

[AZ*]

Welcome!

I believe your machine was probably made by Waters Conley Co. RCA outsourced production of their suitcase portables from the 1930s onward.

Many of these machines have cast pot-metal tonearms that tend to bind and swell. The tonearm should swing from side to side freely, and you should be able to easily lift the front part of the tonearm and rotate it upward when changing the needle. It may not be heavy, but just stiff. You may need to disassemble the tonearm and lightly sand the metal and then grease it to restore freedom of movement.

It could be something else, but these phonos with their cast tonearms are prone to this type of issue.

A binding tonearm could also contribute to the black you are seeing which might be an indication of severe record wear.

[Mysteryoustraveler]

Thank you! It's so great to find out more about my little Victrola. There seems to be very little info I can find on it.

The tone arm is fine, it swings very freely and the reproducer does swing up for me (also very freely) to change the needle. Although the reproducer that is on there isn't the original that came with it originally:

IMG_1069 by Mysteryous Traveler, on Flickr

IMG_1068 by Mysteryous Traveler, on Flickr

I am not sure what kind of metal it is, but when I tried to take the screw off of the part that the reproducer connects to the tonearm, part of where the screw was screwed into crumbled. I guess that is pot metal?

There is someone else on this forum selling one very similar to mine, but the tonearm on theirs is silver and not brown like mine.

[Jerry B.]

If your machine has truly free tone arm movement, both side to side and up and down, and you are using new needles, and you are playing period correct 78s, there should be no reason for skipping. I though AZ's advice was spot on correct. I am baffled.

Jerry B.

[JerryVan]

"Tight" doesn't necessarily mean it's always tight through its full motion. While it seems to swing freely, maybe slowly move the tone arm from right to left, and also move the reproducer slowly up & down, noting any periodic tight spots. While playing records, also try to note if the skip/s always occurs in about the same spot/s, regardless of the what record you're playing. These tone arms really are noted for this issue, and as others have stated, there's no other apparent reason for your trouble.

[OrthoFan]

1...I have to gently lift and hold the tone arm upwards so that it will not skip....

2...I have also noticed that the needles are picking up a lot of black on the first play, so I definitely change my needles with every play.

1 -- This puzzles me because, normally, a sluggish tonearm will drag the record, causing it to slow down or stop. If the tonearm moves freely back and forth, as well as up and down, there should be no drag or slipping.

2 -- That might indicate that you are either playing the wrong records or that the soundbox is frozen. If the soundbox has never been overhauled with fresh gaskets, etc., that might be your problem.


Along this line, what records are you trying to play? Could you provide the label mfg. information (ie, Victor, Decca, Columbia, etc.) and the title and numbers for a few of your records that skip? That would provide a clue as to when the records were made and if they're appropriate for your phonograph.

OrthoFan

[JerryVan]

When he holds the arm slightly upwards it may alleviate pressure on the mounting flange joint, where it possibly binds in certain spots.

[Mysteryoustraveler]

1...I have to gently lift and hold the tone arm upwards so that it will not skip....

2...I have also noticed that the needles are picking up a lot of black on the first play, so I definitely change my needles with every play.

1 -- This puzzles me because, normally, a sluggish tonearm will drag the record, causing it to slow down or stop. If the tonearm moves freely back and forth, as well as up and down, there should be no drag or slipping.

2 -- That might indicate that you are either playing the wrong records or that the soundbox is frozen. If the soundbox has never been overhauled with fresh gaskets, etc., that might be your problem.


Along this line, what records are you trying to play? Could you provide the label mfg. information (ie, Victor, Decca, Columbia, etc.) and the title and numbers for a few of your records that skip? That would provide a clue as to when the records were made and if they're appropriate for your phonograph.

OrthoFan

Hi OrthoFan,

The tonearm is really loose - meaning, I don't feel any stiffness whatsoever. I can move it up and down, side to side with no resistance. In fact, I thought the issue was that it was too loose.

The reproducer is not original and I also thought that might cause an issue.

I bought a bunch of 78rpm records and didn't realize there are specific records that this Victrola can play - sorry, still a novice here. I just went and bought a couple lots from Ebay or Craigslist.

The records I am playing are:

Mercury "Popular" - "I'll See You In My Dreams" - Tony Martin w/the Starlighters
KEM Records - "Hawaiian Tale" Cliff Ferre with the Mark McIntyre Quartet
Decca - "A-Tisket, A-Tasket" Ella Fitzgerald and Chick Webb Orchestra
Colombia - "Hush, Hush, Hush - Here Comes The Bogey Man" - Henry Hall and His Orchestra

I have a bunch more, RCA Victor, Tempo, Crystellite, Variety, Epic etc. Doesn't matter what record I play, they all skip at some point. And it seems tempermental, I will hit a good day where it may play one record all the way through without issues if I angle the reproducer just so...

[OrthoFan]

Hi Ivy:

Well the records seem okay for this model, no vertical cut records that I see.

A couple of things come to mind. You say that the records skip (jump the grooves) at a certain point when you play them? Does the motor, itself, emit any kind of noise when this happens? If the spring needs regreasing, it could be releasing suddenly which could cause the soundbox to bump and skip some grooves. Wind the motor as you would to play a record, and then let it run down, listening for any bumps or thuds.

Also, I'm wondering about the condition of the soundbox, itself. If it's as-found, the needle-bar may be held in place too tightly to track the records properly. In addition, the diaphragm gaskets, originally soft rubber, are probably rock hard with age, restricting the movement of the diaphragm. Also, the "throat gasket" which connects the sound box to the tonearm, if rubber, should be soft and pliable.

The angle of the needle is also a factor. There are a number of Youtube videos that show similar RCA portables in action.

This one sounds particularly good -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcnnUpsAVRI and shows you what these models are capable of--certainly, not shrill or tinny or metallic sounding.

This one doesn't sound as good -- probably needs fresh diaphragm gaskets -- but shows the proper angle for the soundbox -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3FNRp5yNZA

While the soundbox you have is not original to this model, it looks to be from the same era, and should work just fine once restored. The tonearm you have may be a replacement, but it's the correct size and shape for this model. If you'd like to hunt down the correct parts, you might want to post a wanted ad in the Yankee Trader sub-forum.

OrthoFan

[gramophone-georg]

Stupid question, most likely, but how do you have the arm placed when you are playing records? Left or right side of the spindle as you face the machine?