Two Interesting Pathé Needles

[SonnyPhono]

I just purchased a Pathé Actuelle and found two of the sapphire tipped needles in one of the cups. I expected one or more to be somewhere with the phonograph so didn't think twice. When I got home I took a few pictures of the tips to check out their condition. The first thing I noticed were the different size heads.



I am assuming that the larger head would be considered the "loud" needle due to the added weight? Here are a couple pictures of the jewel tips:

Is this one chipped on the upper right hand side, or is it worn?



This one appears to be in great condition.



Here is a good view of the different size heads.



I found something really interesting that I didn't see until looking at the pictures on my computer. It appears that the word "Pathé" is inscribed on the shank of the needle on the right.



I zoomed in to get a better look and sure enough, "Pathé" is written clear enough to read it! You really can't see it without magnifying it. I took a bunch of pictures and didn't notice a thing until blowing them up on the computer. So I took some more and found that it is written on both of the needle shafts. One is very hard to read, but nonetheless is there.




Surely this can't be the work of a handyman, right? I guess it would be possible, but keep in mind that the letters stand only fifty-five thousandths of an inch tall and the entire word is less than ⅕" long. (I measured them with a digital micrometer.) I can't even see the letters without magnification of some sort. Would Pathé have written like this on their needle shanks?
I have never seen anything like it and either way am impressed.

[SonnyPhono]

I still can't find anything regarding the writing on these. Does anyone know if this was a common practice for Pathé? Has anyone else ever seen something like this?

[OrthoSean]

I can't say I've ever seen the Pathé logo on any of mine, but I also can't say I really paid attention!

As far as "tone" goes, the fatter one would be louder than the one with the smaller end. I have quite a few different Pathé type styli her with varying degrees of this and I really can't say that my ears heard much of a difference between most. One of them, though, like yours on the left in the first photo is much louder than all of the others I have. They also sold an ivory-type stylus (still sapphire, but the shank is some sort of ivory or plastic) which was supposed to be soft tone. Mine's about as loud as the others. I know this isn't terribly helpful, but these are just my experiences with these. I'll check mine later under a magnifier to see if any of them say Pathé on them...

Sean

[gramophoneshane]

I cant say I've ever seen that early style mounting, nor the insignia on the shank before. Interesting.
My sapphire ball stylus has no markings, but I'm not surprized as it came from a UK parts supply co back in 1989.
Does anyone know whether US Pathé made their own styli, or were they all made/imported from France?

There does however appear to be something stamped into the flat for the chuck screw on my conical DD needle, which I've always assumed came from a Cheney, but have never had the chance to compare it to a known Cheney DD stylus.
I dont have any good magnifying devices though, and my cheap camera & shakey hands dont make a very good combination when it comes to close-ups.
Anyone got one they can read?

[OrthoSean]

Can't read it, Shane...actually it doesn't look like it says anything.

I have no idea where Pathé got their sapphires from, honestly. As I mentioned, I have several different ones in different styles, one I have is a Brunswick that came in a Brunswick "jewel" package. It looks just like most others, so perhaps there were a few suppliers of them.

Cheney are different, your Edison stylus isn't a Cheney. Cheney ones are almost nickel plated in appearance and the tip (for Edisons) is actually a red jeweled tip, I don't know if it's really a diamond or not. Their sapphire styli have the same longer nickel looking shank only with a ball instead of a "point". If I can get my digital camera to behave (it's nearly dead) tonight, I'll see if I can get photos of the Cheney ones so you can see them.

Sean

[estott]

A Cheney DD stylus has a very conical tip, appearing as if the jewel was inserted and both ground to shape at the same time. Mine is reddish as well but I suspect it is some kind of sapphire.

[gregbogantz]

The extra mass at the tip of one stylus versus another should have little to no effect on its overall loudness. Loudness as attributed to acoustic phono needles is a result of the stiffness of the shank section between the needle tip and the needle chuck. The lessening of stiffness in the shank allows the shank to bend which reduces the amplitude of the vibrations that are transmitted to the reproducer diaphragm, thus reducing the loudness. That's why you see the diameter cut down on the "soft tone" tungstones versus the "loud tone" ones and why the loud steel needles are larger diameter than the soft tone ones. The extra mass that you see on some designs of acoustic phono needles is an attempt to affect the frequency response. More mass at the tip or a blob of extra mass elsewhere along the shank will reduce the treble response and was probably an attempt to reduce "needle scratch" by those manufacturers.