Cockleshell Monarch Gramophone. Does it look correct?

[jamiegramo]

A single spring motor would probably only play one record (one side) whereas a double spring motor could play 2 or 3 sides on one winding. The single spring motor would normally be found on the Junior Monarchs. His Masters Gramophone suggests there was a supply shortage around 1904 and some Cockleshell Monarchs were equipped with single spring motors and sold as Junior Monarchs. Whether this practise also occurred later I do not know. But member 'Oedipus' almost certainly would.

I find the transfer-decal interesting on this machine. Whilst it appears to be an obvious repro it omits the word 'Typewriter' from the script. This would be correct for the last of this style of banner transfer. Perhaps someone has gone to some trouble to replace the actual transfer that was on the machine rather than use the G&T banner repro which is more easily available.

The transfer is a pre Typewriter copy so pre 1901 isn't it ?

The word 'typewriter' was dropped from this larger style transfer from late 1907. The early pre typewriter transfer was the thinner one.

[jamiegramo]

Cheers, nostalgia, but I haven't bought it yet, but I'd like to and have messaged the seller about details. Unfortunately the seller informed me that when he tested it this morning the spring broke! So he's taken it to his workshop to fix and he'll get back to

It might be wise to ask the seller if he can send you a picture of the top with the turntable removed. You would be looking for any redundant holes especially holes that appear dirty or used that would suggest a different motor had once been fitted.

This isn't conclusive. The motor could be mounted to the 2 pieces of wood above it, these pieces are then mounted to a different configuration of holes in the top board. The 2 pieces of wood are a bit strange but they may have been added so that the winding handle lined up better with the winding hole.

[Josh Cattermole 1999]

Thanks. I'll ask him now.

[Oedipus]

The transfer looks repro, but would be correct for a cabinet made in 1908. As cabinets, complete with transfer, were made in large batches and often kept in stock for a year or so, the gramophone could have been sold in 1909 or even 1910.

It has a steel, not cast iron, turntable, which suggests 1910 or later. The motor is a spiral drive, which rules out 1904. I don't know exactly when the spiral drive motor came in, but it was fairly late in the G & T era - 1906 or 1907. Whether or not the single spring motor is original to this cabinet, it always had a spiral drive; the bevel gear motor has a different winder position.

The spiral drive motor came with one, two or three springs, and the basic chassis is the same for all three, with a rear-ward extension to the two or three spring versions. Thus, if the single-spring motor is original, there will be three screws holding it to the motor board. A double-spring motor would have used the same three screw holes,but would have had an extra screw towards the back, and the hole for that would now be redundant.

Exhibition sound boxes have often been replaced, so are no guide to originality or date, although, to a degree, the serial number on the backplate may give an indication.

If the single spring motor is original, then this was probably originally sold for the price of a Junior Monarch, fitted with a Junior Monarch horn.

[Josh Cattermole 1999]

Thank you so much for your detailed analysis and explanation Oedipus. I really appreciate it. I've asked the seller for a photo of the machine without the turntable so we can see if there are any screw holes which suggest a replacement. I'll keep you updated on that. Cheers