Cylinder Phonograph Questions

[VictorVV-X]

Hello all,

I understand that the Model B is for the brown wax cylinders, the Model C is for the two minute black wax, and the model H is for the Black Wax Amberols and two minute Indestructibles. From what I understand the Model H can also be used for the Blue Amberols, but with the possible risk to stylus wear.

The thing I am not completely sure of is the type of reproducer to use for four minute Indestructibles. I have read the Diamond B is the reproducer to use, but couldn't you also use a Model H?

Also, can a Model S reproducer play any two or four minute cylinder, or just wax type records?

Most of my understanding of reproducers has come from this site: https://www.78rpmcommunity.com/beta/78r ... ecordings/

This is all in preparation for when I finally get a cylinder phonograph.

Thanks in advance.
VictorVV-X

[phonojim]

The model B is a good choice for brown wax if you don't have an automatic. The model C will play 2 minute cylinders, both black wax and celluloid. The model H will play all 4 minute cylinders. I believe I have seen a tutorial on this subject on the Antique Phonograph Society's website.

Jim

[FellowCollector]

and the model H is for the Black Wax Amberols and two minute Indestructibles

"...for the Black Wax Amberols", yes. "...and two minute Indestructibles", no. The model H was not designed for play of any 2 minute cylinders including the Indestructibles. That said, the model H can play 2 minute Indestructible cylinders BUT the stylus was designed for a 4 minute groove and, therefore, the sound will be noticeably compromised.

From what I understand the Model H can also be used for the Blue Amberols, but with the possible risk to stylus wear.

Correct.

Also, can a Model S reproducer play any two or four minute cylinder

Yes. But keep in mind that both styli are sapphire so stylus wear may occur more quickly with play on celluloid cylinders (Blue Amberol and Indestructible) versus wax.

[phonogfp]

You've received good answers. Here's the APS article mentioned earlier (scroll about ⅓ down to where the cylinder section starts):

https://www.antiquephono.org/basic-anti ... onal-tips/

George P.

[VictorVV-X]

Thank you all for all your help!

The only thing I still don’t understand is, if Indestructible cylinders are celluloid and blue Amberols are celluloid why would the latter wear a sapphire stylus and not the former? Is the grove different, or am I missing something?

[phonogfp]

Thank you all for all your help!

The only thing I still don’t understand is, if Indestructible cylinders are celluloid and blue Amberols are celluloid why would the latter wear a sapphire stylus and not the former? Is the grove different, or am I missing something?

Any celluloid cylinder will wear a sapphire stylus. That's why Edison introduced the Diamond A and Diamond B Reproducers at the same time as the Blue Amberols.

George P.

[VictorVV-X]

Thank you all for all your help!

The only thing I still don’t understand is, if Indestructible cylinders are celluloid and blue Amberols are celluloid why would the latter wear a sapphire stylus and not the former? Is the grove different, or am I missing something?

Any celluloid cylinder will wear a sapphire stylus. That's why Edison introduced the Diamond A and Diamond B Reproducers at the same time as the Blue Amberols.

George P.

Thank you George.
So even when Indestructible cylinders were introduced stylus wear was an issue? I read that celluloid cylinders were introduced in1906.
Forgive my ignorance. This is the first time I’ve really looked into cylinders and cylinder phonographs.

[phonogfp]

So even when Indestructible cylinders were introduced stylus wear was an issue? I read that celluloid cylinders were introduced in1906.
Forgive my ignorance. This is the first time I’ve really looked into cylinders and cylinder phonographs.

We all started out ignorant on these topics. Asking questions - like you're doing - is how to fix that!

Lioret in France was selling celluloid cylinders in the mid-1890s. Lambert began selling celluloid cylinders in the U.S. in 1900. I haven't encountered any accounts of undue stylus wear during those years, but when Columbia bought the output of Indestructible in 1908, it took only a few months before they offered new reproducer designed for them, and sapphire wear was mentioned at that time.

George P.

[VictorVV-X]

So even when Indestructible cylinders were introduced stylus wear was an issue? I read that celluloid cylinders were introduced in1906.
Forgive my ignorance. This is the first time I’ve really looked into cylinders and cylinder phonographs.

We all started out ignorant on these topics. Asking questions - like you're doing - is how to fix that!

Lioret in France was selling celluloid cylinders in the mid-1890s. Lambert began selling celluloid cylinders in the U.S. in 1900. I haven't encountered any accounts of undue stylus wear during those years, but when Columbia bought the output of Indestructible in 1908, it took only a few months before they offered new reproducer designed for them, and sapphire wear was mentioned at that time.

George P.

Interesting. I wonder what changed in the American style celluloid cylinders to cause wear? Could it be that the American style celluloid cylinders used a v-shape groove instead of a round groove?

Thank you again for all your help. I greatly appreciate it!

[phonogfp]

Interesting. I wonder what changed in the American style celluloid cylinders to cause wear? Could it be that the American style celluloid cylinders used a v-shape groove instead of a round groove?

Thank you again for all your help. I greatly appreciate it!

You're very welcome. I doubt that anything changed in the U.S-based celluloid cylinders themselves, but rather that it took a few years of consumer use to demonstrate celluloid's more rapid wear of sapphire compared to wax cylinders.

George P.