Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Discussions on Talking Machines of British or European Manufacture
epigramophone
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Re: Sold as an English horn gramophone, with a Garrard motor

Post by epigramophone »

gramophoneshane wrote:Thanks for that information and picture.
To be honest, I never knew Columbia was still offering horn gramophones so late in the game. I'd actually forgotten all about Columbia using Garrard motors, although the limited amount of Columbia's I've had experience with were all stamped as Columbia motors by Garrard, but I guess by this late in the game they no longer bothered.
It still retains the classic Columbia shape knob on the crank though I see.

Can I ask what reproducer and type of tonearm was used on these late Columbia horn machines?
Did they stick to the one piece tonearm similar to what you find on the earlier BI type machines throughout production of horn machines over the years?

I can't imagine they sold very well when their only real competition would have been the HMV Model 32.
The Model 2a was Columbia's last external horn machine. It had the Plano-Reflex tonearm and the No.9 soundbox as pictured.

I took pity on a beginner who had been deceived by a Crapophone and wanted the real thing, so I sold it to him. I have never seen another. It still lives only five miles from me, and if the new owner ever decides to sell it I want it back!
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Columbia 2a 001 (1).JPG (74.58 KiB) Viewed 586 times

soundgen
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Re: Sold as an English horn gramophone, with a Garrard motor

Post by soundgen »

epigramophone wrote:The last Columbia external horn models had Garrard motors. My 1929 Model 2a, which I regret selling, had the No.50 large single spring motor.
Yes Garrard Motors but they were all "Badged " COLUMBIA NOT GARRARD

soundgen
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Re: Sold as an English horn gramophone, with a Garrard motor

Post by soundgen »

nostalgia wrote:Taking a needed brake (this evening) from the Columbia Plano Reflex tone arm " brain drain", I thought it could be interesting to show this horn gramophone that is up for sale. Sold as a Garrard horn gramophone, it could be interesting to hear what you English horn gramophone experts and aficionados can say about this machine.

If I understand it right Garrard at this time only made motors for manufacturers of gramophones, and did not manufacture their own machines, and if I also remember correctly from past threads, the Garrard 30 motor is a two spring motor. But there is also my knowledge stopping about this gramophone..
Indian repro box with possibly original Garrard motor , motor board holes poorly cut and damage on areas under the turntable , why ? tone arm from an ordinary machine , arm cut and rotated 180 degrees and reassembled to provide an appropriate direction for the soundbox , all in all a good shop display worth £100
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a4b.jpg
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Last edited by soundgen on Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

soundgen
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Re: Sold as an English horn gramophone, with a Garrard motor

Post by soundgen »

gramophoneshane wrote:
nostalgia wrote: I did not know that reproduction cabinets were made in Switzerland in the 1960s and 1970s, that was quite shocking information in itself.
Well that's what I was told years ago by a seasoned collector, although I've never seen any actual proof of his story.
Most of the machines with this same cabinet that I've seen, used Thorens running gear and back bracket, but usually have a small brass horn, and a 2 piece brass elbow that was soldered together.
I was told they were made from left over parts from the Thorens factory in the late 60's, in very low quality cabinets.

A friend of mine actually bought on a couple weeks ago, but it has a German motor, which kind of makes me question the Thorens story, so I'm starting to think they were just a generic frankenphones that appears to have been made in fairly high numbers and distributed around the world.

Gramophone pictured is an Indian Repro

soundgen
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Re: Sold as an English horn gramophone, with a Garrard motor

Post by soundgen »

nostalgia wrote:And now I have to ask, was it "in the good old days" ever manufactured horn gramophones with sharp angle elbow like on this machine? With my very limited knowledge about horn gramophones, I have so far only seen this sharp angle, on crapophones.

No original machines have this angled elbow

nostalgia
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Re: Sold as an English horn gramophone, with a Garrard motor

Post by nostalgia »

Thank you, Soundgen !
I was never really tempted to buy this machine, so I guess it means I am learning!
Still, it is always interesting to discuss such machines, since it is a good way of learning how to "separate the wheat from the chaff",

gramophoneshane
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Re: Sold as an English horn gramophone, with a Garrard motor

Post by gramophoneshane »

soundgen wrote:

Gramophone pictured is an Indian Repro
Do they date from the late 60's into the 1970's as I was told?

I know this type has been around at least since 1978 when I started collecting, and they appeared to have a little bit of age to them then, unlike the modern crapohones from India that look new and in some cases even have cheap reproduction Garrard 11a motors.

gramophoneshane
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Re: Sold as an English horn gramophone, with a Garrard motor

Post by gramophoneshane »

soundgen wrote:
epigramophone wrote:The last Columbia external horn models had Garrard motors. My 1929 Model 2a, which I regret selling, had the No.50 large single spring motor.
Yes Garrard Motors but they were all "Badged " COLUMBIA NOT GARRARD
So if I'm to understand correctly, this Model 2a had the No.50 motor stamped Columbia (like all other UK Columbia motors made by Garrard)?

epigramophone
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Re: Sold as an English horn gramophone, with a Garrard motor

Post by epigramophone »

gramophoneshane wrote:
soundgen wrote:
epigramophone wrote:The last Columbia external horn models had Garrard motors. My 1929 Model 2a, which I regret selling, had the No.50 large single spring motor.
Yes Garrard Motors but they were all "Badged " COLUMBIA NOT GARRARD
So if I'm to understand correctly, this Model 2a had the No.50 motor stamped Columbia (like all other UK Columbia motors made by Garrard)?
Columbia had a long standing contract with Garrard for the supply of motors, and as Garrard's largest customer they were able to have their own name stamped on the motors.

soundgen
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Re: Sold as an English horn gramophone, with a Garrard motor

Post by soundgen »

gramophoneshane wrote:
soundgen wrote:

Gramophone pictured is an Indian Repro
Do they date from the late 60's into the 1970's as I was told?

I know this type has been around at least since 1978 when I started collecting, and they appeared to have a little bit of age to them then, unlike the modern crapohones from India that look new and in some cases even have cheap reproduction Garrard 11a motors.

I think the thing about the wind up gramophone in India is that they never really ceased making them or converting them back to working order with motor transplants etc , no electricity in many parts if India ensured their continued use and enjoyment , so these old "repros" predate the later mass reproduction in the 1980s . similar things happened in Sri Lanka and Indonesia

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