Pathé diamond stylus question

[Curt A]

As Jerry V pointed out, the shape of the stylus determines which type of record can be played on a Pathé machine or other machine that allows the reproducer to be rotated. The problem is with terminology: Pathé machines came with three styles of styli for playing any type of record - steel needles for regular 78s, ball styli (sapphire or glass) for "Pathé" records or other "hill and dale" records and "diamond" (pointed) styli for Edison DDs. All of these styli types can be referred to as "Pathé" styli in the general sense that all can be used on a Pathé machine. They can also be referred to by their specific types - steel needles, ball styli or diamond styli. We all know what steel needles are, but the confusion comes when referring to the other types as "Pathé styli". Most commonly ball styli are called "Pathé styli", because they are necessary to play early "Pathé brand" records...

The shapes are what is important in determining their uses... See the examples below:

[drh]

So what type of stylus is needed to play one of the US made vertical records from that period (Rex, Vocalion, etc.)? Do they work with the typical Pathé sapphire stylus?

most can be played with normal steel needles.

Rex can't--it pressed its records with the Pathé cut groove and takes a sapphire ball stylus. Same is true for Rishell. Lyric, if I remember correctly, is for steel needles. In theory, Vocalion and OKeh and Gennett vertical cut disks exist and would take steel needles, but in practice you are extremely unlikely to encounter one outside the confines of an auction catalogue.

[Wagnerian]

Sorry to jump-in in this discussion but are we sure that we are talking about Edison Diamond Discs here? Surely wouldn't a diamond point fitted to a Pathé-type brass shank in a Pathé reproducer be playing at completely the wrong angle for an Edison Diamond Disc? I've never tried it so I don't know but it sounds like a good way to damage your Edison Discs.

Don't forget, Pathé in the UK also produced a "Diamond Disc" from c1914 to 1919 which played with the usual Pathé-type sapphire stylus. Could it be that we are actually talking about these Pathé Diamond Discs rather than Edison's?

Regards

TW-W

[KCW]

A good point for sure. But what would be the point for Pathé to make discs for diamond needles and other discs for sapphire needles? I’m puzzled, it will try the diamond stylus on a less desirable Edison disc when it arrives. I also got a sapphire stylus in an ivory shank, would the ivory change the sound quality? I’m assuming no.

[Curt A]

I have successfully played an Edison Diamond Disc with one of these pointed "diamond" styli, with no apparent damage. If you are unsure, definitely don't try it with your valuable DDs. You can also use one of Donnie's repro DDs and not risk anything. I use my stylus with my Fairy Phonograph Lamp and play original DDs along with one from Donnie...