Pathé Model VII Restoration: Needle Bar

[jimlewis1126]

This is a follow-up to the thread that I began a few weeks ago. I'm almost done with my first restoration -- a Pathé Model VII that's been in my family for 45-50 years -- with very pleasing results. I hope you'll agree:

IMG_2565.MOV

(49.89 MiB) Downloaded 439 times

Cabinet was falling apart and now repaired; broken spring repaired and regreased; motor cleaned and rebuilt (now runs 9-½ minutes fully cranked!); tone arm pivots repaired and turning smoothly; and reproducer rebuilt with new diaphragm and gasket tubing. Many thanks to all who helped guide me through this... wouldn't have happened without you!

HOWEVER, I have one last problem that's proving rather frustrating. Indeed it plays beautifully, as you heard in the video. But all is not as blissful as it seems. The needle bar was subjected to a bit too much abuse during a rather stressful repair process, and now changing needles is a bit of an operation -- so much, in fact, that it won't survive any further tinkering.

Unfortunately, replacement with the exact part also is proving difficult. SO, MY BIG QUESTION: Does anyone know if another needle bar will fit my particular Pathé Concert reproducer? I measured the width of the pivots at 9/16":

I found the following on eBay -- what I'm guessing is an older model of the Pathé Concert (I've certainly seen plenty of other photos online). Can someone tell me if this needle bar will fit my reproducer?

I'm also wondering if the needle bar from a Brunswick Ultona would fit?

IMG_2568_LI.jpg (871.49 KiB) Viewed 1719 times

I was told the pivots are only ⅜" wide, but I'm guessing it's adaptable with longer set screws. I appreciate any info you can provide.

Many thanks... Cheers!
Jim

[CarlosV]

The Pathé soundbox you have is US-made, while the other one you show is French. I would not risk trying to exchange the needle bars, it would be easier to find another US-made Pathé soundbox and use it as part donnor. Same with the Brunswick, it is a pretty unique design.

[JerryVan]

I'm not really seeing what's wrong with the current needle bar. Can you post a photo of the problem, or explain what I'm missing?

[jimlewis1126]

Oh, Jerry... I was afraid someone would ask for details!

I was hoping I could spare everyone the agony of how I got to this point, especially because it's my own fault. What you see above — probably repairable using a bit of JB Weld (because I can't see how to solder it properly) — doesn't tell the whole story. The threading on the now-separated barrel is pretty much trashed — must have been mangled when I got over zealous with pliers or a vise. Thus, I couldn't tighten the ring sufficiently by hand to hold the needle in place. To boot, more tinkering has led to more damage (even though I believe I did enough careful filing to make the threading more-or-less functional). Now the wire holding holding the locking pin in place (the small piece that is pressed firmly against the shaft of the needle when the threaded ring is screwed all the way down) is also broken. So, this is my sad state of affairs — especially frustrating because I successfully soldered the broken bar, which was my original problem. Consequently, I can piece it all together to "play" beautifully, even though it doesn't really "work."

[Curt A]

DELETED

[JerryVan]

I have one of the French made reproducers. The spacing between the pivot arms is 1", if that helps at all.

Wondering if it's possible to remove the needle chuck from a French version and solder it to yours?

[JerryVan]

The Brunswick Ultona needle bar measures 1-½" from the pivot to the diaphragm screw. The French style Pathé needle bar measures 1-⅝" in that dimension. Maybe the American version is different?

[Curt A]

DELETED

[JerryVan]

Why not just get another reproducer and quit screwing around trying to change out needle bars?

Got one for him Curt? No? Maybe that's why he wants to fix what he's got.

[Curt A]

Here's one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/estate-found-P ... %7Ciid%3A1