Follow the Restoration! - Victor VE 10-50

[Mr Grumpy]

Hello Phonograph Phorum Phreaks!!!!
After a short hiatus from phonographs and most of the world in general, My life has finally settled down to the point where I have hours to waste writing long-winded threads on this forum that very few people will read. This will likely be one of those long threads, with plenty of immature jokes and possibly some pointless YouTube videos, so prepare to be mildly entertained!!! or maybe slightly annoyed!!!

Part 1: The Patient

The topic of this thread is the behemoth, the 1959 Cadillac Coup de Ville of phonographs, The Victor Victrola VE 10-50. The first fully automatic record changer that Victor made in 1927! Now, I know a lot has been said about how much these machines weigh, I've witnessed figures around the 130kg mark (three hundred pounds for you crazy Americans). But I'd like to say that when moving this particular machine it felt like a lot more. So much more that I fully expect to find a partially mummified white Rhinoceros hidden under the motor board.

How did you acquire such a magnificent machine Vince? (you might ask)
From a local collector who was running out of room of course!
Of course, I’m running out of room as well, but I promised my wife I would sell a Victor 13 to make space. Thankfully she knew nothing about the 10-50 and didn’t do ANY research so had no idea this new machine was three times as big!! Hahahah! What a loser! (The 13 is still available if anyone’s interested, I haven’t really put any effort into selling it yet – I’m such a jerk)

Now, in order to make this restoration more challenging I’ve decided that I will start it BEFORE I’ve completed the small workshop area I promised myself I would build in my new home. Most of this project will be completed in a dimly lit basement room with no chair, no table or desk, and without access to adequate tools. In fact, to make it even more challenging these are the only tools I will use for the entire project! What could go wrong!?!?!

All my good tools are buried somewhere in the garage which is too far from the house and it’s too cold to venture out.

I’ll also need the following items to complete this restoration…

To clean the old grease

Brake cleaner.jpg (10.37 KiB) Viewed 2019 times

For motor removal

Engine hoist.jpg (32.81 KiB) Viewed 2019 times

Only use tough strips!

Band aid.jpg (14.18 KiB) Viewed 2019 times

To clean me

To annoy the rest of the household while working

Abba.jpg (8.92 KiB) Viewed 2019 times

Here’s a photo of the patient in the hallway of the basement which is currently being renovated so I thought now would be the perfect time to start this.

The concrete floor is my work bench!

I have not plugged the machine in to test the motor,
I have not been successful at turning the motor manually to see if the mechanism works,
I have no idea if the machine’s components are complete.

I know this is missing…

But I’m not a reject so I’m thinking I don’t need whatever belongs here!

The cabinet is in good condition overall but has several nicks and scratches. The top is missing most of the original lacquer finish. I will hopefully have a space carved out in the garage this spring to repair the top, but I plan on leaving the rest of the cabinet alone and only make small repairs as necessary. The original grill cloth is completely intact and the reproducer will need a rebuild and restore as someone has painted it a very orangey gold colour.


I’ve already started disassembling and should be done soon so the next part should come quickly, just need to type it all up. I’ll probably lose or break a few pieces and injure myself in the process so stay tuned! You can all get a good laugh at my expense.

[gramophone-georg]

Looking forward to this as I have one and it's one of my favorite machines. Actually, mine is a rare limited edition V-M* special cabinet edition- a 10-50 in a 9-55 cabinet. My wife has threatened to use it for my coffin, but I plan on foiling her scheme by being cremated!
My machine has one issue- it jams the tonearm in the "Victrola" position and I am too stoopid to figure out why. I bought it because it's a changer so no big deal really, but the OCD half of my brain is peeved off that it doesn't work.

Here's hoping you will be doing my legwork on this for me here.

*Victrola-Monkey

[Inigo]

Grumpy! Nice and funny post! We're eager to follow your reports on your works! Thanks

[Mr Grumpy]

Looking forward to this as I have one and it's one of my favorite machines. Actually, mine is a rare limited edition V-M* special cabinet edition- a 10-50 in a 9-55 cabinet. My wife has threatened to use it for my coffin, but I plan on foiling her scheme by being cremated!
My machine has one issue- it jams the tonearm in the "Victrola" position and I am too stoopid to figure out why. I bought it because it's a changer so no big deal really, but the OCD half of my brain is peeved off that it doesn't work.

Here's hoping you will be doing my legwork on this for me here.

*Victrola-Monkey

I'll hopefully sort it all out for you, but It's a long drive for me to actually do the work for you so you may have to handle it yourself. Do you have vise grips?
I'm hoping VM still has some of those felt kits he was selling a while back, it would finish this machine up nicely!

[Mr Grumpy]

Part 2: Disassembling the undisassemblable™

Well, the first part of the disassembling process went off without a hitch. I unscrewed the rear thumbscrews by hand and removed the back panels and also opened the front door. Woohoo!!!!

I also removed four screw to this tower looking doo-hicky which holds the stack of records waiting to be played. I’m sure there’s a proper name for it, if you know, please feel free to educate me.

The next part hit a snag. How to remove the turntable?
Luckily in a separate thread PeterF gave me the following advice…

“It’s a friction fit, and the platter is pot metal. Suggest a good long soak with penetrating oil, then some judicious shimming with wooden strips between platter and motorboard, then some gentle tappity tap on a piece of wood or hard plastic on the top of the spindle. You want to build tension underneath the platter before tapping, and be sensitive to the free play between spindle and motor bearings.

It shouldn’t take much tapping.”

I have never met or seen a photograph of Peter, so I can only imagine him as a mix of Tom Brady and Peter Ustinov. If you know him, please don’t destroy this visual I have of him. I’m also assuming the F stands for Fantastic because with the help of some tile setting wedges, the pee pee from fish (WD40), and some taps of a mallet while gently reminding the machine that it’s wood was dry and would burn real good, the turntable came loose.

Tile wedge

Tile wedge.jpg (23.33 KiB) Viewed 1887 times

I placed some folded paper towel under each of the wedges to protect the finish.

After removing the wooden motor board and revealing the complexity of the mechanics, I knew I would need to apply some additional WD40 to my vise grips. This wasn’t going to be easy, and it was going to take every bit of my memory to make sure I didn’t lose track of all of these components, because of course I decided I wouldn’t use any pictures or tags to document everything’s proper position. This is supposed to be challenging!

But before pulling it all apart, I decided to turn the motor by hand to try to understand how all these components interact with one another and how this mechanism functions. The entire mechanism runs and is attached to a long flat bar of metal that slides back and forth across the motor plate. It appears to have some spring assistance underneath it. I will try to document the dynamics of the movement later in the thread.

It wasn’t long before I noticed a few issues…

The tone arm moves up and down but does not swing from side to side, and the motor and mechanism is incredibly difficult to spin by hand.

On a positive note, I found the button for rejects hidden in the cabinet!
That should come in handy should I sell this machine to someone who might need that button…

I will continue to disassemble the mechanism, lose a few pieces in the process, and if you’re lucky, break something as well. Wish me luck!

[gramophone-georg]

Looking forward to this as I have one and it's one of my favorite machines. Actually, mine is a rare limited edition V-M* special cabinet edition- a 10-50 in a 9-55 cabinet. My wife has threatened to use it for my coffin, but I plan on foiling her scheme by being cremated!
My machine has one issue- it jams the tonearm in the "Victrola" position and I am too stoopid to figure out why. I bought it because it's a changer so no big deal really, but the OCD half of my brain is peeved off that it doesn't work.

Here's hoping you will be doing my legwork on this for me here.

*Victrola-Monkey

I'll hopefully sort it all out for you, but It's a long drive for me to actually do the work for you so you may have to handle it yourself. Do you have vise grips?
I'm hoping VM still has some of those felt kits he was selling a while back, it would finish this machine up nicely!

I have vise grips and a fire wrench too, but they are metric.

[Mr Grumpy]

A 10mm vise grip will work if you just grind it down a little bit.

[Mr Grumpy]

Part 2B Update: Pot Metal!!! Which I’ve now dubbed “The Devils Alloy Forged in the Deepest Depths of Hell!” DAFIDDH™

Many of you knew this part would eventually come…
In fact, I’m sure you laughed when you read I was going to start this restoration project.

Did you know that Pot Metal is also a genre of music? I just made that up so it is now! Pot Metal™
(now legal in Canada!)


Luckily for me, I made sure the machine came with all the re-manufactured parts to replace the pot metal! At least, I hope they’re all here… I haven’t really done a proper inventory count yet.

On another positive note I discovered why the tone arm would not move from side to side. At the bottom of the cabinet (The bottomless pit of lost parts) I found a little copper pin that looked like it belonged to the mechanism somewhere. After I had identified the bar that is supposed to operate the tone arm movement I noticed a hole in it that was the perfect size for my newly found pin! And it lined up perfectly with a slot below it in the main movement bar. I’ll try reinserting this pin when reassembly is complete.

I’m going to start cleaning the mechanism parts now and replace the pot metal parts when at the reassembling stage.

Stay tuned for Part three, but until then enjoy this 10 hour video I made three years ago for JerryVan. I believe he’s personally responsible for at least 50 of it’s 55 views (his favorite song apparently).

(Double-click the video above or click this link to go to the video on YouTube.)

[PeterF]

El Grumpo said:

I have never met or seen a photograph of Peter, so I can only imagine him as a mix of Tom Brady and Peter Ustinov. If you know him, please don’t destroy this visual I have of him.

You monster. Try YA Tittle and Peter O’Toole.

You’ll still be wrong.

I’m also assuming the F stands for Fantastic because...

Nope. Stands for “Funkadelic.”

P.S. I am (also) Spartacus.

[gramophone-georg]

Actually, THIS is Peter with his Guild Grafonola: