www.phonotrader.com

[Sidewinder]

I wanted to look for the Bing tinplate record prices to underscore my previous comment, but here is something in the same vein.

This - for example - was around $200'000 15 years ago at Christies in England. Give me 5 class M's anyday

[gramophoneshane]

No venom, just stating what I believe(d) to be true.
I'm actually pleased that Mr Hope has no involvement with the site, and that he must be either taking advantage of it's free status atm, or is merely using it as an outlet for the stuff he cant move in the UK.
It still doesn't change the fact that he's offering machines with wrong or questionable parts, and lower end machines that UK collectors seem uninterested in, on the Phonotrader site.

[gramophone78]

I too agree that there are no venomous comments on this topic.There is nothing more to add regarding the site that has not already been stated.
However,with regards to the values of "our" hobby compared to other fields......I for one do not think the UK or any other country has anything to do with prices falling.Although, many may not agree with what I'm about to write. I firmly think this way about this matter. Ebay, has taken it's toll on this hobby as well has most hobbies. Lets face it,if you want to buy a Vic 3 all you have to do is go on a buy one. You even have a choice waiting for you.The same can be said for any of the more common models.This leads me to my point. Rarity......quality and not quanity is what counts when "investing" of hard earned dollars. Those machines may turn up on Ebay but,even then it would be few and very far between. In fact,most machines at that level never even hit an open market. Those machines will always command the high prices and there will always be buyers out there for them.Don't ever kid yourself. Tin toys, dolls, bears,etc....whatever it is all follow the same rule. Some of these were very expensive when new and therefore few were sold. Even fewer are now in near mint condition and a couple maybe MIB.
So, if you can afford to be selective and buy the rarest models. Your investment potencial is very good. You may have a collection that is only 3 or 5 machines instead of a barn full but,they will be great machines and worth more than the barn in the end.This is just my two cents on this.

[MTPhono]

There does appear to be at least a little venom aimed at Mr Hope.

I don't know much of the history of his issues in the UK, nor do I care to start a discussion of what has been done in the past. What I can say is that this year he sold me one each of the Edison-Bell Concert phonographs (quite rare in the US) for what I felt were extremely fair (even lower than market) prices. He also sold me an off-brand European Concert cylinder machine for almost free (in terms of what is asked at US shows). I have found him to be extremely fair. The only knock has been his slowness to answer emails at times.

[WDC]

I am quite happy not have seen much of the UK conflict but the phonograph market appears to be simply too small for such actions, not to mention that continuesly closed boards and wide-spread wrath does its easy part to scare any newbie away.

Regarding the development of prices, the prior explanation does sound very logical to me. Those with deep pockets who would like to identify themselves with artifacts considered to be rare have certainly experiences a change within the last decade. ebay has indeed done its things to it and significantly increased the average availability of items.

On the other hand, the rarer and more unusual a machine for ex. might be, the fewer people would likely be able to even recognize it, not mentioning to value it. Yet again, ebay is a good example to make observations. I have seen lots of highly interesting and rare items being sold for top prices, but only lead by 2, sometimes 3 bidders. After that you would usually find a huge gap and then many others would follow.

So, a certain level rarity may become a clear disadvantage when considering a collection to be an investment.

[Steve]

o, a certain level rarity may become a clear disadvantage when considering a collection to be an investment.

I couldn't agree more. I've witnessed the recent price trends for what are the rarest and arguably best portable disc machines in the world, the HMV so-called 'Colonial Models' in teak cabinets. These have reliably fetched well over £500 each but it is usually the case that only 3 bidders even bother to have a go for them. Why? Well, there isn't a very well documented record about their history anywhere and most collectors interested in HMV products run a mile whenever they see one simply because they don't know what they are (and maybe because they EXPECT high prices to be realised). Even though there IS a book dedicated to HMV Portable Gramophones, it commits the faux pas of omitting the most important models!

The same thing appears to apply to EMG products. Over in the UK, it is laughably predictable who will bid on anything EMG on Ebay. Whilst a soundbox can easily make £500, it is usually the same 3 collectors bidding it up!

[Steve]

Just send us a photo ( the more the better) or tell us where on the Internet we can view the item & we will tell you if it is real or not.

I'm sorry, I just saw the above quote on the new website (not CLPGS, that one is at least 10 years old!!!!) being discussed here and it made me laugh out loud, knowing as I do what certain traders are like. More like "tell us where on the internet we can view the item and we will buy it from under your feet if it is any good. Don;t worry if it is rubbish, we will let you have it!"

I agree with everything that has already been said here. If the site lays claim to having "moderators with expertise" who will value and appraise everything independently (is such thing possible?), we need to know who these people are. And not just the site owner / admin either!