Fiber needle wear

[Orchorsol]

I thought the 'skin' should be on the outside... Examining the new-old-stock EMG Davey fibres and others I have here, they are cut that way...

I always understood this to be because, having dynamically levelled the gramophone (i.e. not with a spirit level, but for null tonearm swing on a dead wax area of a record), the outside has more 'work' to do in making the tonearm traverse the record.

[old country chemist]

Andy-you are probably right the skin on the outside. Must be my age! I could not really remember, so I got out a few H.M.V. bamboo needles that I had, unused, and they were all cut with the skin on the inside. Perhaps they were different. My apologies.

[AZ*]

I thought the 'skin' should be on the outside... Examining the new-old-stock EMG Davey fibres and others I have here, they are cut that way...

I always understood this to be because, having dynamically levelled the gramophone (i.e. not with a spirit level, but for null tonearm swing on a dead wax area of a record), the outside has more 'work' to do in making the tonearm traverse the record.

That makes sense.

I've noticed that my USA NOS fibres (Hall Mfg co.) have the skin on the inside, but some newly made fibres I bought on ebay last year have the skin on the outside.

[Inigo]

My only branded bamboos are an envelope of Hall bamboos, and as AZ said, the skin is in the inside.
Except for those, from which I used some, then left the rest untouched for the sake of preservation, I only have used my own made bamboo needles since the late Francis James showed me how to make them, firstly by his book, later with some letters we crossed, where he encouraged me and gave useful advice.
I've cut them both ways, but I've noticed no difference in performance. The only thing that 'hurts' me a bit is that if you cut them for the skin to be outside, then the needle fixing screw presses on the skin side, and I've always felt that this could spoil the needle, splitting it along the fibres, for I feel the skinny sidde is more prone to this fragile splitting than the inside, which is softer. When the screw is at the inner side, the skin is in the inside. The screw leaves a tiny perfect cylindrical hole in the soft wood, showing that this inner side is more 'pliable' and not so rigid; it can be pressed without splitting the needle. I bet that the skinny side is more prone to splitting if it is pressed such way...
Anyway, these are mental excursions of a mad collector... don't take them too seriously!
About this, I'm very interested.. I've been lately experimenting with no-skin bamboo needles. While cuttting the needles from the bamboo cylinder, I observed you leave apart the inner trinagular sections that are surplus because they have no skin. I was one day cutting bamboos from a very good piece, seasoned bamboo wood, so dry and solid that it hurt me to throw the surplus needles to the trash. I sized them, and cut them to shape. i used them and surprise! They were as good as the ones with the skin! So it's clear that if the bamboo is good, dry, hard, with straight fibres.... there's no woood to discard. So I started to keep them too, and use them.

Bamboo.jpg

[Ho_Hum]

After reading all this I am tempted to just go back to steel needles, so simple.

[HMVDevotee]

I suggest you try thorn needles. I used old, super-dry and hard bamboo for about a year and found sufficient inconsistency in the material that probably 20% of my re-cuts yielded inferior points (and I use an excellent, sharp, Victor cutter.) Thorn needles sharpen reliably and can be re-sharpened more times than you can cut bamboo.

Sent you a PM with further information.

Robert (HMVDevotee)

[Inigo]

With my hand made bamboos this is the problem, inconsistency. But their use isn't difficult, and when you cut a good point, it may last for several 12" sides without repointing. Not going further, just yesternight I took a long thin bamboo needle, one of those without skin, and played a broken 12" of Pau Casals playing the cello (HMV DB1067) both sides. It has a half moon bite that reaches the middle of the side, glued back in place. The first point was able to play both sides, despite the continuous horse galloping and consequent rough treatment to the needle.
Then I repointed it, and played through the four 12" sides (this time in good shape, although one of the records has a rough area, caused by irregular pressing, which does a swooosh in both sides) of Cortot & LPO/Ronald 1934 version of Franck's Symphonic Variations on DB2185/6. It played flawlessly, with a soft and clear sound!

Sometimes the bamboo won't play clearly, but then you repoint it and try again. If it doesn't work, I simply change the needle. It sounds a bit difficult, but it isn't. And the magic of good, soft & warm sound, with those clear treble notes emerging from the horn... that you get when using a good bamboo, compensates the small work of choosing the needle and pointing it. There's inconsistency, and worst when using handmade bamboos cut from bamboo wood taken from the trash bin, of unknown origin.. as I do. I've never bought a bamboo stick, except some Chinese eating sticks I bought to make test needles.
I feel fine with this. Of course, for heavy modulated dance records I use steel if I feel the bamboo won't go thru them, but with classical music recordings, I love the sound of the bamboo. It's like opening an old wine bottle without knowing what you'll find, and tasting it. A complete surprise, but when it's good... God, how well it tastes!