Victor IV mystery

[Zenger]

I've owned this Victor IV for a while but only recently got around to having the motor cleaned and serviced; the springs are old but solid. However, about half the time when I crank it up fully and put a record on, the turntable will start slow and grind to a halt within 10-20 seconds. When I lift the needle it starts spinning normally, and if I set the needle down again in the middle of the record it plays just fine. The other half of the time, it plays normally (more or less) from the beginning. All the records I've tried so far have been old Victor one-sides, with the exception of a couple of Eagles, etc. What could be the issue?

[Jerry B.]

My best guess are weak springs that are more obvious when playing a worn record or a record stamped in a softer material.

Jerry B.

[AZ*]

Assuming the cleaning and servicing was done well, and everything is properly adjusted, then like Jerry, I question the springs. I am not sure what "old but solid" means.

I have attached a photo of an old spring and a new spring. The old spring (left) had lost some of its springiness after 80 years. The new spring (right) provided much more power.

[JerryVan]

Does it do this when it's not fully cranked up? If everything is in good shape, there should be no reason to fully wind it to play a record.

[Zenger]

Well, the mystery deepens: I took some of these earlier one-sided records, most from 1901-1906, I would guess (are those "softer," Jerry?) that I had trouble playing and tried them out on my other outside horn machines, all of which (except for the IV) have 3-spring motors; same problem. Then I tried them on my late VTLA (also 3-spring) -- again, same problem. I even had a bit of a problem on my Brunswick Cortez, which, unlike the aforementioned machines, has all brand-new springs. Then I tried them on my VV-IX, which has 2 old springs -- and they played just fine! Now I'm REALLY confused. What gives?

[Jerry B.]

I don't think the early records were soft but they could easily have been worn. When you did your test with various machines did you use a new needle with each different machine? If not try again and report back. Don't be timid about giving machines a good winding.

Jerry B.

[gramophoneshane]

If you're sending them out to be serviced, perhaps they're putting too much grease in the barrels?
That can inhibit a springs performance, especially in well sealed barrels that don't allow excess grease to escape.
Like waving your arms about under water, it slows free movement and power/energy of the spring.

Regarding needles, have you tried different tones to see if that makes any difference?
I've found some record that slow using soft tone needle but play fine with loud tone, and visa versa.

Other than that, the only things that come to mind are a poorly adjusted governor creating too much friction with the motor under load, or perhaps using an oil like 3 in 1 that gums up quickly and becomes more like glue.
Unless the motors are all being serviced by the same person, it's pretty unlikely they'd all have the same problem though.

[Stephen_Heatherly]

I have the same issue with my vv-xiv. It plays great until I try to play a worn record. The springs are a bit weak. My worn records play just fine on my vv-vi which has new springs.

Stephen

[Zenger]

Now that you mention it, all those machines were serviced at the same place. It happens to be a place I've dealt with for decades, so I'm reluctant to believe that could be the problem, but I have to admit it does make me wonder now. I don't try to play records of this age very often, and I can say for sure that the VV-IX that has no problem playing them has never been serviced, so perhaps you're onto something, but I have no way of knowing.

I will say that I tried playing a couple of records with soft tone needles, and that does seem to reduce drag somewhat, but it does nothing for the sound reproduction...