Silvertone ID (possibly XI 1918?) and general advice

[thewordscomealive]

Hello! I just bought a Silvertone phonograph from an estate sale down the street for $100 (including a big box of records), and I am a complete beginner at all things phonographs (and records in general). I've poked around the forum a fair amount as well as elsewhere on the web, and it seems that it is most likely a model XI from 1918, but I would love confirmation - some photos I've seen of this model have a different looking grill plate and scrolls along the side. If anyone has photos or, even better, schematics of this machine or something similar, that would be absolutely wonderful!

You might be able to see in the pictures that the outside wood's not in the best shape - it was stored in a basement. The alligatoring near the top is fine, and I can live with the dull wood, though I'd love tips on restoring it if possible. What I'm most worried about is that towards the bottom the finish is completely crumbling off. Is there a way to repair this or at least minimize the damage without completely refinishing the piece?

It otherwise seems to run pretty well, though I'm probably not a particularly good judge I do think the reproducer should be repaired or replaced though if that seems feasible - the rubber inside is definitely all dried out. I'm also not sure that the arm is sitting entirely correctly, as when it comes down off the player it hits the base or the side of the used needle cup, rather than floating above it, if that makes sense?

So glad this forum exists, and thanks in advance for any help!

[Jerry B.]

I'm no authority on Silvertones but I think you're close on the date and model. When evaluating the cabinet always start with the least aggressive and get more aggressive as needed. I would start with using GoJo or Goop hand cleaner and a rag. Always buy the non-pumice cleaner. Clean an area and wipe off with paper towels. Replace the rag as needed. Please post photos of your work in progress. I think I'm seeing walnut under the years of dust and grime and walnut would be a very desirable wood. Congratulations on your purchase.

Jerry B.

[Duchesne]

WOW! Looks like you found a player completely intact. I hope it plays for you too. Looks like walnut, and top end, and you have the key, all the parts appear to be there. Looks like baroque or rococo style grille/cabinet. Rightly or wrongly, I clean up mine with a little Hawe's/Old English lemon oil, because it doesn't seem to harm anything (even metals) and lets me see the wood and finish without having to strip. But, If I wanna strip I stick with methyl hydrate (ya have to wear a mask or you'll end up with nervous twitches like I have) and it allows me to remove the lacquer but not the patina. It can be slow going with rags and steel wool and such, but the result is often worth it. My piano guy restores his pianos with lacquer so that the next person in 100 years can strip it easily as some of the newer technologies don't strip as easy as lacquer...

I am deeply jealous of your find, but I am glad nonetheless you found a home for that beauty!
And welcome aboard!!!!

[drh]

Welcome, and congratulations on quite a nice machine! You shouldn't need to replace the reproducer, just the rubber gaskets. Rebuilding reproducers is a routine maintenance item for "new-old" machines, and any number of folks here on the forum can do it at modest cost, or you can learn how to do it yourself. Just be careful if it's made of pot metal. You also should have the motor cleaned and lubricated; even if it runs OK, chances are it's gunked up with old grease and dirt that will cause needless wear to the gears and whatnot.

About that "hitting the needle cup" problem: The machine already has three needle cups grouped back at the rear of the motorboard (the one with a cover being for used needles), and having a fourth of different size stuck out far away from them would be odd. I don't know for certain, but I'd suspect the one by the reproducer isn't actually a needle cup but rather once housed a little pad of some sort, now long gone, to serve as a needle rest. Others more familiar with Silvertone machines can verify or correct that.

[alang]

That needle cup where the to tonearm is located is actually the used needle cup and should have the lid on top. I have a Grafonola that has the exact same needle cup arrangement. I believe the sound box may need to be turned a bit on the to tonearm so the needle sits in the proper 60 degree angle to the record. It looks like then it might hit that used needle cup better

Andreas

[Curt A]

One note of caution: That fancy "carved" grill is not solid carved wood.

It is actually pressed sawdust mixed with glue and will break into many pieces, if not handled carefully. If you decide to refinish the cabinet don't use chemical stripper on it. Be very careful not to drop it on the floor when removing it... if it breaks, it will be extremely difficult to repair and impossible to find a replacement (don't ask me how I know).

If you decide to restore the finish on the grill, don't strip or sand it, just over spray it with "lacquer toner" of a similar color - lacquer toner is wood colored lacquer in various shades.

[Duchesne]

One note of caution: That fancy "carved" grill is not solid carved wood.

It is actually pressed sawdust mixed with glue and will break into many pieces, if not handled carefully. If you decide to refinish the cabinet don't use chemical stripper on it. Be very careful not to drop it on the floor when removing it... if it breaks, it will be extremely difficult to repair and impossible to find a replacement (don't ask me how I know).

If you decide to restore the finish on the grill, don't strip or sand it, just over spray it with "lacquer toner" of a similar color - lacquer toner is wood colored lacquer in various shades.

Yes, I was amazed there appears to be no missing parts on that grille, considering what its made of.

[drh]

That needle cup where the to tonearm is located is actually the used needle cup and should have the lid on top. I have a Grafonola that has the exact same needle cup arrangement. I believe the sound box may need to be turned a bit on the to tonearm so the needle sits in the proper 60 degree angle to the record. It looks like then it might hit that used needle cup better

Andreas

So I guess the idea is that the user loosens the thumb screw and the used needle drops straight into the waste cup. That makes a good bit of sense. Thanks--I learned something today!

[thewordscomealive]

Thank you all so much for the warm welcome! I had a hectic week and have finally had time to clean everything up and take some more pictures. I used some Weiman lemon oil that we had to do a basic clean, along with some damp rags and q-tips for corners and the grill - being extra careful with the grill! (there are one or two minor cracks in the grill but they don't seem to go all the way through, which is fortunate! Overall it's in great shape)

Some of finish has come off, particularly on the fins and near the bottom, but it's not quite as bad as I'd feared at first, and looks like it's most likely not worth refinishing at this point. But I will need to replace the gasket in the reproducer, and have the screw fixed/replaced as well as it's quite bent. Hopefully that will help with the issue of the needle hitting the cup as well. It is a nice configuration to have thought, when disposing of the old needles! And it looks like there are a few places not too terribly far away that offer repair services, so hopefully I can get that sorted out soon, along with routine cleaning of the motor. The DeBence Antique Music World looks particularly interesting

Here are some more photos, now that it's all cleaned up. I've had a lot of fun and learned a lot already, and am looking forward to continuing to learn!

[Duchesne]

Yes, Royal Purple for the finest pieces!

You have a magnificent piece there. I'm rather jealous. I have had luck with my book-matched walnut veneer VV 4-70 ( I've only ever seen book-matched veneer for this Canadian model built in Montreal) by matching the poplar components ( like your legs) by using Minwax's red chestnut stain. I've found it to be rather complimentary to walnut's golden patina. I would only do it if A: you were refinishing the piece (and I would only recommend methyl hydrate as it will only remove the lacquer - if and only if it's lacquered). B: you didn't want to redo the piece in "two-tone" that is to say, staining the non-walnut components in a contrasting stain.
I am puzzled by the grille fabric and my instinct wants to clean it with warm soapy sprayed water and sponged off - as one might do their car seat upholstery, but it's much, much too risky at this point in time. I think best to leave "well enough alone" for now on that front.
I think it's so gorgeous right now and just live with it and enjoy the sounds it will make. For me, that grille alone (seemingly rare) is a show-stopper - worth having the whole piece just for that.

And thanks for the update. Very kind of you to update and share with photos!

Now, hopefully, you've been "bitten" and will start collecting more.....