Records..

[Ole Canal Antiques]

Sorry for being such a newb in the world of phono's but i have a question. what's the deal with the really thick disks? Was they made for certain machines?

[AZ*]

YES!!!!

They are meant to be played on Edison Diamond Disc machines only. If you play them on a Victrola type machine with a steel needle, you will ruin the record. Don't do it!!!

[Ole Canal Antiques]

Ok, thanks for the heads up. I have a big box of them i was looking at today...

[phonophan79]

Simply put, Lateral cut (Victrola) and Vertical cut (Edison) was the first ever format war. (VHS vs Betamax, HDDVD vs Blu Ray, etc)

Victor, Columbia, Brunswick, Silvertone, Decca, Sonora, Sonata, United, Paramount and similar labels were lateral cut recordings. Most basic standard 78's are of lateral cut and are found in most antique shops today.

Edison Diamond Discs and Pathé are Vertical cut recordings.

Edison records required the special Diamond stylus and the Pathé required the Sapphire stylus to play the records. Using a metal needle on these records would produce poor sound and ruin the records.

[Ole Canal Antiques]

Simply put, Lateral cut (Victrola) and Vertical cut (Edison) was the first ever format war. (VHS vs Betamax, HDDVD vs Blu Ray, etc)

Victor, Columbia, Brunswick, Silvertone, Decca, Sonora, Sonata, United, Paramount and similar labels were lateral cut recordings. Most basic standard 78's are of lateral cut and are found in most antique shops today.

Edison Diamond Discs and Pathé are Vertical cut recordings.

Edison records required the special Diamond stylus and the Pathé required the Sapphire stylus to play the records. Using a metal needle on these records would produce poor sound and ruin the records.

Nice post, thanks for the info. i guess ill have to sit and go through all the records i have now and sort them into types. Thanks again for the help. I know im a newb but i really want to learn this stuff..

[Wolfe]

Brunswick, Paramount were lateral cut recordings. Most basic standard 78's are of lateral cut and are found in most antique shops today.

Actually, very early Brunswicks and earlier Paramounts are vertical cut, before they switched.

But you're probably unlikely to encounter them. *Most* basic standard 78's are lateral cut, indeed.

[gramophoneshane]

Early Aeolian Vocalions too

[estott]

and early Okeh and Gennet discs were vertical cut too. There were several minor vertical cut labels in the US (Operaphone, Par-O-Ket, Keen-O-Phone, Rex) the use of a sapphire stylus was a big talking point.

[Ole Canal Antiques]

Again, thanks for the great info guys. It's much appreciated! I have another question, are there certain records i should be looking for? I heard someone say one time that collectors look for certain labels?

[JohnM]

Newb, there are two types of vertical formats as mentioned in the previous posts: Edison's Diamond Disc format (which I refer to as 'vertical', and the format used by Pathé, Rex, etc. that is called 'hill-and-dale'; the difference being the shape of the groove and the styli used for playback. Edison used a V-shaped groove and a conical diamond stylus; hill-and-dale typically uses a U-shaped groove and a ball-shaped sapphire stylus. There is another type of hill-and-dale that uses a V-shaped groove and a disposable steel needle such as early OkeH, early Gennett, etc. There is yet another rather uncommon steel needle format that is a combination lateral and vertical (Par-O-Ket) designed to play on either lateral or hill-and-dale format machines.

The hill-and-dale sapphire format was of French origin and enjoyed a brief vogue here in the States right around WWI with most brands of this sort being centered in Philadelphia.

Edison's vertical diamond format was derived primarily from his existing cylinder record technology and adapted to the disc format.

The answer to your question about which labels collectors like is very complex in that collectors assess records based on not
only the label, but the content of the record, the artist, the subject matter, and frequently down to which take or mor specific master a given record was pressed from. Knowing which records are desirable requires a vast knowledge of history, technology, sociology, music, etc, etc, and is a learned skill that takes years to acquire. There are far too many unusual labels and variants to simply list. A difficult question to answer simly!