Pathé Pathéphone model VII

[De Soto Frank]

Since there was another thread from Icemandan01 regarding a Pathé internal-horn machine, I thought I would include some pics of the one lurking in my cellar.

(Regarding the last photo: yes, I know it's wrong to have the reproducer facing front for a Columbia (or any) lateral disc; the point was to illustrate the reproducer setting for Pathé verticals. If I can find my Pathé vertical discs, I will ammed the last photo... )

[icemandan01]

looks somewhat similar to the one i posted on another thread that i was supposed to look at today but owner never called. kinda choked about that. kinda answer's the question on Pathé making any upright model's at least in north america anyway. where did you get yours

[De Soto Frank]

Dan,

This machine was given to me about 15 years ago by a friend of mine who found it somewhere in the Pocono Mountains of Northeast Pennsylvania.

When I got it, the motor was laying in pieces in the cavity under the motorboard.

The pot-metal parts are in surprisingly good condition.

I figured-out how to get the motor back together (it's a two-spring Heinemann), and had to send the governor to Wyatt's for new springs for the weights.

It has never run very well; the motor seems to change speed ("WOW") every couple of revolutions of the turn-table.

After I shot these pictures, I tried playing the machine again, and futzed with the governor a bit, but still could not get it to maintain a steady speed.

Frankly, I'm not terribly impressed with the whole machine; I think the build-quality is quite a bit higher with Victor, Edison, and Brunswick machines... the motors are certainly stouter in those machines. I do not know how it compared in price to the "big Three".

I would not be inclined to spend much money on a Pathéphone like the one I have; mine will be a guinea-pig for cabinet refinishing, or it may hibernate until I find a better home for it.

It is the first Pathéphone I have run across in thirty-some years of casual collecting, so I don't have much experience with them; perhaps I'm being unjustly harsh in my judgement of them based on this one sad soldier.

Perhaps we'll hear from someone more knowledgeable ?

[Phonofreak]

I have a Pathé No.7 in oak. It runs pretty good. I guess I'm lucky. I have also worked on Heinemann motors. They are a pain and they were cheaply made. They are not the same quality as a Victor. If you are willing to spend the money, you can send the whole motor away to get it going right. The Heinemann motor was used in a lot of off brand phonographs. I think Silvertone used them, but I can't remember.
Harvey Kravitz

[antique1973]

I have a Pathé No.7 in oak. It runs pretty good. I guess I'm lucky. I have also worked on Heinemann motors. They are a pain and they were cheaply made. They are not the same quality as a Victor. If you are willing to spend the money, you can send the whole motor away to get it going right. The Heinemann motor was used in a lot of off brand phonographs. I think Silvertone used them, but I can't remember.
Harvey Kravitz

My "plain Jane" Silvertone had a Saal motor. Not exactly known for reliability either.

eBay Item #290510009327

I think my favorite to overhaul so far is the single spring Victrola IV motor. Great and
simple design, one screw and the barrel can be removed. It was actually fun, like working
on a toy.

[gramophoneshane]

I'm not a big fan of Heineman motors either. I think there biggest downfall is the fibre gears they used. They're the softest of any fibre gears I've come across, and this leads to excessive wear or the gear stripping. It kind of contradicts the "motor of quality" slogan.
I'm guessing it's the fibre gear in De Soto Franks motor that's mostly causing the speed variations problems.
Shame, because the machine looks like it would clean up really well. With a new fibre gear it would probably be a good usable machine. I like the sound quality of these machines, but I think they're lacking a little in volume. If you usually play normal 78s with a soft or medium tone needle, I suppose the volume would be satisfactory though.

[icemandan01]

the only reason i am exspressing some interest in the macnine is that i believe it may be a Pathéphone. i don't have one and they don't come up very often aroung here. i believe with a bit of time amd money i think i can turn this mach into a nice piece of working history. then that would leave me with one more to add to my collection and that would be a columbia. which seems very difficult to find around here. i know with a bit of elbow grease you would have very nice machine there desoto frank. oh well hopefully the owmer will call today so i could have a look at it. good luck with yours frank

[syncopeter]

Those 1920s Pathés with internal horn sound surprisingly good, with nice bass and well-defined midrange and hardly any surface noise. They may have been made from crappy material, but the results are quite good. A bit like French cars from the 60s and 70s. You need to get a loan just for maintenance, but no other car maker could match the ride.

[MOTORMAN]

Heinemann Motors aka Motor of Quality was a generic motor sold by phonograph part supplier, Otto K. Heinemann, these motors were used in many models of off brand phonographs, they were simple design pretty reliable but had issues with design. The governor bearings have holes that are off center, this makes adjustment very difficult. The turntable governor gear is not brass, it is fibre and is prone to excessive wear, many are so worn in they are past the point of use. The noise is usually from the governor, however the piller and plate holes can also become worn which makes for looser contact of shafts and gears that can also result in noise. I prefer Edison or Victor any day!

[messerbottom]

I've got one of these just like in the pictures but it is in great shape .Got it in jax fl about 15 yrs ago and it is loud and works great.. I did do some work on the arm and had the motor rebuilt....love it!