What were these from???

[gramophone78]

I found these two lead glass panels years ago. The elderly man that had them died and his Son asked if I would like them. He told me that his Dad had put them in the doors of a cabinet many years ago but clearly the cabinet was a lot newer than these.So,I'm hoping that someone can shead a little light as to what these are from. I don't think they were in windows of a dealers store because the windows would have been very small.They were clearly well made. They also remind me of the four HMV's that are in the Victor tower.

[icemandan01]

wow nice find never seen anything like em before

[gramophoneshane]

It could have started out as a single panel that was cut in half to mount in the doors. The lines of the coffin aren't in line, but they may also have originally been mounted in slimmer frames too.
Probably the best way to tell would be to remove them from the doors & butt them together, to see if there should be a gap between the 2 panels or not. I'd also check if the profile of the 2 bits of lead running down the middle edges are exactly the same as the rest of the outer lead framing. Even if the inner strips of lead were newer additions, it would be difficult to tell by patina along if the lead was reblacked when the alteration was made. I'd also check the solder joints along those 2 strips of lead. Professional leadlights often develop an individual look to their own soldering due to the technic used, grade of solder & the amount of time the heat the joint, so if the panel started off as two sections, the soldering down those 2 strips should match the joints elsewhere in the panels.
My initial thought was a shop window, door or fanlight panel, but it may have been part of a backlit shop sign or cabinet I suppose.
Whatever it is, it's pretty awesome!
What's the size of each panel?

[gramophone78]

I should have stated the size... . They are 16.5" by 12.5". The wood door frames they are in are made of some cheap wood. You can also tell that they were cut open to fit these panels and married together. I think if they are put together they may not line up.There is also no sign that they were altered or reduced in any way.
Shane, I do like the idea of lighting from behind. A nice box with light would look good.At this time I have them in my office window letting natural light shine thru them. I have not seen these in any collectors book on HMV. So,I don't think they were a Victor factory made item.

[gramophoneshane]

Well, judging by the size, and the fact that you dont think the lines would meet if they were butted together, I'd say they were probably in a fanlight above a door, and they had a thin strip of moulding running between the 2 panes. It really depends on the size of the gap between the 2 panels when they are laid out so the lines are correct. When the design was drawn, they wouldn't have drawn it, then just chopped it in half. They would have allowed for a specific size of framing or moulding to go between them. Knowning what distance was original left between them might help you work out if they were used architecturally or in a shop fixture/cabinet.
My gut feeling is a fanlight though. I doubt a shop owner would have gone to the trouble & expense of having them made, so I wonder if they may have been commitioned by Victor for inside the Victor building or one of their offices?
If they were mine, I'd get them reframed with the correct distance left between them.
Some of these leaded panels can look magnificent backlit. I used to work in a local restaurant that was built in 1853 as our original court house & jail, and in the corner of the jail cell, they had a nice leaded window that came from elsewhere. They suspended it from the ceiling by 2 brass chains, and had a simple light bulb on a wire hanging down behind it, & it looked absolutely stunning. It really added atmosphere to the room with all the colours standing out & the soft glow of the light on the walls behind it.
Yours would look great in a similar set-up with all that red glass.

[gramophone78]

Shane, an interesting thought as to where these were used and from.I will add one thing. Since I'm in Canada and I'm sure they are from here too. I wonder if they are from Berliner's Montreal factory or shop.Your so right. I need to have these framed right and spaced correct.I wonder how old these are.I guess there is no way to tell based on the glass as most is still made today.I do know that most stained glass is now made with copper foil and not lead.So, that may help date them.

[gramophoneshane]

The actual pattern of the red glass & the tan? shadowing might offer a clue to when they were made. It doesn't appear to be the common old arctic pattern that's been around for the last 80 yrs, nor a Victorian pattern I'm familiar with, so it might be a pattern that was only produced for a fairly limited time- like 10 or 20 yrs? I'm only basing this on what I've seen here though, so that pattern could be as common as mud in Canada & USA for all I know lol.
I'm sure a pro leadlighter, old school glazier or maybe even an architectual recycling shop could identify the pattern & perhaps narrow down the date the pattern was produced.
It sort of has a 1910s/1920s feel about it to me, but very well could be ealier or later.

[phonogfp]

I thought those stained panels looked familiar!

In the final issue of the American Phonograph Journal back in December 1978, there was a piece by a fellow who called himself "Diamond Jim Greer." In it, he described (in florid prose) a number of items - mostly new - which comprised his collection. Among these items were two stained glass panels set in cabinet doors, which may be seen in the photo of a page from this issue. "Diamond Jim" wrote, in part, "...through the loving labor of talented artistic friends enthusiastically wishing to contribute to my fascinating hobby, two stained glass doors were created...followed by..."

The stained glass doors date from the 1970s. They certainly are nicely done.

George P.

[gramophone78]

WOW!!! George that is so cool. I made a copy of that article. So, does the article say that the panals themselves were made in the 1970's or that they were fitted into the cabinet in the 70's??. This info must be on another page not posted. If you could, please email me the full text.They sure look like the exact ones I have. Unless, they are another pair??.

[phonogfp]

I quoted the only line in the article that mentioned the glass doors, which states that one of the author's friends "created" the glass panels. I will email the rest of the piece to you, but don't blame me when you're through reading it!

George P.