Early Brunswick Electric Panatropes?

[gunnarthefeisty]

Does anyone own one of these or have an opinion on how those early Brunswick Panatropes sound? I'm looking at a fully restored P-11 for $400- but the amp isnt hooked up so I don't know how it sounds.
Thanks

[PeterF]

“Fully restored” means any number of things.

Check these items:

1. Pickup coil rewound and rubber bushings replaced?

2. Amp restoration details: what was done, and who did it? Why isn’t it “hooked up”? Make them demonstrate that it works, or reduce the offer.

3. If there’s a radio, same questions as #2

4. Motor functionality? Any work done, new springs/lubrication etc?

5. Cosmetics: refinished or original? Quality of plating on metal parts.

How do they sound? Pretty good for their age.

[gunnarthefeisty]

“Fully restored” means any number of things.

Check these items:

1. Pickup coil rewound and rubber bushings replaced?

2. Amp restoration details: what was done, and who did it? Why isn’t it “hooked up”? Make them demonstrate that it works, or reduce the offer.

3. If there’s a radio, same questions as #2

4. Motor functionality? Any work done, new springs/lubrication etc?

5. Cosmetics: refinished or original? Quality of plating on metal parts.

How do they sound? Pretty good for their age.

No worries, I know the guy who did it and it's a good job- I'm just wondering if I should shoot for a later model or something.

[VanEpsFan1914]

If you like the sound, go for it. Hook the amp up before you pay $400 for something.

I'd stick to an acoustical model, mainly due to longevity--once the soundboxes are fixed, they're OK and don't have the troubles with vacuum tubes needing replaced or ancient wiring giving up the ghost. You still have to change the steel needles on the early electric machines & really a hand-cranked acoustical machine isn't that awful to use.

The volume controls on some old Panatropes are not a smooth-turning potentiometer but a stepped control with like five or eight positions. It's easier to close horn doors.

Sometimes it's fun to play with old tube gear, and it does have an undeniable charm & coolness. But I think acoustics win in the long run.

[Skihawx]

I love the sound of these late 20's amplified phonographs. More familiar with the Victor versions but I imagine they sound similar enough. I've charge $150 to $200 to restore them. And it wasn't enough sometimes.

[EarlH]

I have two panatropes that are restored and I am happy with both of them. I really like the 10-70 I have as well, and they all pretty much have the same components. The early machines have a 4 position volume control and the later machines have 10 positions for volume. You really need to make sure it's all working when you buy it as those volume controls often have issues. A dead spot isn't a deal killer, but it can be depending on where it's at or if several positions are dead. The P-11 is a fairly scarce one because it has no radio, so the amplifier is a little different than the styles with a radio. It's still nearly as big as the sets that came with a radio though. The early machines also had a different style tone arm and if the pot metal has swollen much, it's impossible to remove the pickup head from the arm. I think Brunswick tended to do a better job of finishing their cabinets than Victor did and I also think Brunswick (at least on their more expensive electric machines) tended to use nicer veneer in the cabinets they offered. Having the speaker further off the floor also helps them sound better and they were aware of that and the same thing can be said about horn placement on the earlier machines as well. Those little speakers also have a surprising amount of volume.

[gunnarthefeisty]

I have two panatropes that are restored and I am happy with both of them. I really like the 10-70 I have as well, and they all pretty much have the same components. The early machines have a 4 position volume control and the later machines have 10 positions for volume. You really need to make sure it's all working when you buy it as those volume controls often have issues. A dead spot isn't a deal killer, but it can be depending on where it's at or if several positions are dead. The P-11 is a fairly scarce one because it has no radio, so the amplifier is a little different than the styles with a radio. It's still nearly as big as the sets that came with a radio though. The early machines also had a different style tone arm and if the pot metal has swollen much, it's impossible to remove the pickup head from the arm. I think Brunswick tended to do a better job of finishing their cabinets than Victor did and I also think Brunswick (at least on their more expensive electric machines) tended to use nicer veneer in the cabinets they offered. Having the speaker further off the floor also helps them sound better and they were aware of that and the same thing can be said about horn placement on the earlier machines as well. Those little speakers also have a surprising amount of volume.

Thanks! Yeah, it's unfortunately got one of the radio/phono amps with a solid state preamp so it'll work right. I'm HOPING that if I buy it I might be able to trade the radio/phono amp for one of the phono only amps.

[EarlH]

Usually when someone put one of those solid state pre-amps in those machines, they don't understand how they work, or they think that adding one of those will make them louder when the pickup needs to be rebuilt and the work that needs to be done to the amp. hasn't been done correctly. Good luck finding the correct amplifier "in the wild" if it's indeed missing. The phonograph only amplifiers are much harder to find and the audio guys hoover those up when they show up on ebay. I don't know enough about the electric side of those things to know how much work it would be to add a detector tube to the other style amplifier. Also, whatever changes would need to be made to the wiring harness if something else is used in there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sLdxQBjqXk&t=90s This is what the back side of my 138-C looks like, but the amplifier in the P-11 should have one more tube (199 type) and I've eliminated to ballast tube in favor of a transformer. It's been in use again since 2014 and It's given me almost no trouble at all. I see you are up in Minneapolis, I'm down in North Iowa. I have the other version of the Panatrope (148-C I think) It came from up there. A doctor that lived a block or two off Summit Avenue had it and I bought it from his son over in Wisconsin. He said they used to have dinner parties and dances with it and it makes sense. They are certainly loud enough to handle a dance party. This 138-C was bought by a banker down in Kansas City in 1927 when they first got married and set up housekeeping. The 10-70 would have the phonograph only amplifier in it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hMApUF3VJY The 60 cycle hum is not as bad as my camera makes it out to be as the record changes. You can tell they pretty much sound the same. The 10-70 is a GREAT machine, it's really a nice phonograph to play.

[gunnarthefeisty]

I believe the pre-amp is to make up for the missing tube- If you've ever been to or heard of Vintage Music Company, that's the guy who did this. I can assure you it's no amateur job.

[PeterF]

If it has a solid state preamp, it’s an amateur job.