Can anyone put a date on a Diamond Disc Player ? Pics added

[De Soto Frank]

Model C-19 SM 145343

Mahogany finish, two-tiered record storage, gold hardware.

Also has a round badge declaring "Official Laboratory Model" at the outer left corner on the "motorboard" trim.

Thanks!

DS Frank

[barnettrp21122]

The C-19 was introduced in April 1919 and available until August 1927. It initially cost $285.00 until December 1919, when the cost was raised to $295.00. It was the most consistent high-end model sold throughout its run despite other models introduced during that time.
I have no serial number date information. Maybe someone else can give you a reasonable guess.
Bob

[Jerry B.]

According to Frow's "The Edison Disk Phonographs and the Diamond Discs" on page 86 "From April 1919 the C-250 Chippendale became known as the C-19 Chippendale Model." I hope this helps you. Jerry Blais

[De Soto Frank]

Hmmm... the ever-secretive Edison Laboratories...

A little Googling turned-up this site:

http://homepages.bw.edu/~rdensmor/Brief ... index.html

Richard Densmore's site gives the account of his family's C-19 Chippendale, purchased by Uncle Leon, in 1919.
This machine appears to bear serial number 17886.

So, if the C-19 was intro'd in 1919, then I guess we can safely assume that Mr. Densmore's #17886 is one of the "early" serials in the machine's eight-year run.

How far into the 1920's did Edison employ the "Laboratory Model" badge to the C-19 ?

[gramophoneshane]

The laboratory model badge remained on the C19 & all other laboratory models until the end of production as far as I know.
No records are know to exist for the yearly serial numbers, so there's a lot of guess work involved with attempting to date these by the S/N, but certain design feature changes can help with the later machines.
My C19 came from a one-owner non-collector, complete with record collection which almost filled the cabinet. My machine is serial no.117xxx & I've always thought it would date from around 1921, based on the record collection that accompanied the machine.
There was only 6 or 7 etched label discs, one with the first paper label with the black background (these were only produced for a few months in 1921), and the rest of the record collection were white paper labels made into the electric era.
However, about 60-70% of the white paper labeled discs dated from 1921 to about 1924, and most of these were dance tunes, so I presume the machine was fairly new when the majority of the records were purchased, and that these dance tunes were "the lastest popular hits" when they got them.
The remainder of the discs from about 1925-29 were fairly sporadic & few, so again I presume the novelty of the machine wore off & the owner stopped buying near as many discs around this time (or they ran into financial troubles). The etched labels were all pretty boring classic type stuff, so I think they were probably poor sellers/old stock when purchased.
None of this is very scientific of course, but personally I doubt my machine was made before 1920 or after 1922.
Then again, you never know how long a machine sat in the factory before being shipped, or how long it may have sat in the dealers store before being sold, and then in my case, how long it took to ship to Australia & get distributed from Edisons warehouse here.

Based on this guess work, I'm thinking your machine was probably made in around 1925 or so.

If I recall correctly, machine sales started to dramatically decline in 1922/23, so production no's would have declined accordingly.
The most obvious changes made to the later machines that I mentioned earlier included changing the turntable felt from green to a mustard yellow colour, and the governor was changed to hold 3 weights instead of 2. The 3 ball governor may have been introduced in 1926 with the introduction of the long play machines, but I haven't examined one recently to confirm this, but all LP machines I've seen have had green felt.
By the time the Edisonic machines were introduced in late 1927, it appears ALL models across the board had mustard felt & 3 ball governors. Another motor change made at this time was the speed control knob was removed from the top of the bedplate, and was replaced by a knurled wheel in the same place but below the bedplate.
The latest C19 I've found online that retains green felt & a speed control on the bedplate is serial no.152xxx, and the 2 C19's I've found with mustard felt & no visible speed control are S/N 170xxx & 172xxx.
Both these machines also included the 10"/12" buttons to the left of the turntable, but did not include the long play mechanism.
So your machine is obviously from fairly late in the production run being in the 145000's, but I'm guessing not late enough for the felt & speed control changes.

If you get a chance to look, I'd be interested to know if your governor has 2 or 3 weights.
I'd also appreciate the same information from anyone who owns a LP machine

[De Soto Frank]

Shane,

My machine ( C-19 145343 ) has green felt and a two-weight governor. Grille cloth is original and is a gold chintz or damask.

Speed control is on top of the motorboard and is the usual knob & pointer.

(No 10/12 buttons.)

Will try to grab some pics.

Frank

[recordo]

Fascinating! I never realised that C-19s came with two weight governors.

Here's a closeup of mine, serial 148306 - with three weight governor, 10/12 selector, but no Long Play equipment

I wonder which reproducer should be in the spare slot? Perhaps a normal reproducer to replace the Edisonic when not in use?

[De Soto Frank]

Recordo -

What brand / type lateral reproducer adapter is that ?

Mine came with a triple-jointed monkey-motion lateral adapter (gold-tone die-cast) that I have yet to find any indentifying marks on... the reproducer has a mica diaphragm, but behind the mica where one would expect a name, is just a disc of leatherette glued in place.

If you machine has the 10" / 12" selector and came with an Edisonic reproducer, wouldn't that suggest it was a long-playing machine ?

Any history / provenance on your machine ?

Regards,

Frank

[OrthoSean]

Well, my C-19 is 172702, green felt, 10 / 12 inch selector buttons, three weight governor and "above deck" speed control and also no long play gears.

Interesting...

Sean

[gramophoneshane]

Do you know what colour your original felt was Glenn, or did you get the machine with that felt already on it?
I suppose we can assume the governor changed (on the C19) somewhere between 145000 & 148000 then, although changes at the Edison factory seemed to take quite a while to go full circle.
I'm actually a little surprized your machine has the 10/12 buttons Glenn, seeing as the 152000 machine didn't, but again, nothing with Edison seems to have happened overnight.
Then again, they may have been removed from the 152000 machine at some stage, or yours may have been added at or after the machine arrived at Edisons Sydney warehouse. I doubt a private owner would have them installed without the LP attachment too though.
If you get a chance sometime, could you post a picture of your reproducer holder?
I cant recall seeing that exact type before- only the cast iron type.
I would imagine it was supplied with the Edisonic and the regular reproducer was meant to go in the spare hole, especially seeing as Edison wasn't too keen on the regular 78 adaptors lol.