Worth the effort?

[dzavracky]

I wouldn't approach this restoration like that. I would sand the entire cabinet with sandpaper (60-400 grit going with the grain). Then I would do any of the necessary wood working, then the stain, grain fill, and finally the finish coats. If you just apply shellac on that cabinet, the wood will not be the correct color when you're done. ALSO, if you do this in parts, the chances that the lid ends up a different shade of brown than the cabinet is pretty good. Do the whole cabinet in stages, first the sanding, then the staining, etc...

If you don't know how to apply a shellac finish, just google/youtube it. If you're still not confident... practice on some scrap wood before you do it for real. I did give you 4 links to read though... because there's A LOT of info there that will help/teach you how to do this. Martinola even showed all of the materials/brands that he used in his restorations. There isn't a short cut for a restoration, and it often takes longer than you want it to . Just take your time, do some research, practice on some scrap wood until you're confident, and it will look great in the end.

David

[gunnarthefeisty]

what kind of stain would I be looking at here?

[gramophoneshane]

Personally, I think you're better off looking for a good original replacement cabinet, and once that's found, have a go at restoring the cabinet you've got then.

To do the cabinet you have now properly, it should be taken completely apart so you can strip the silver paint from inside and the present finish from the outside, and the cracked panel needs to be cleaned, glued and clamped, then later filled with wood putty to level the whole surface.
It takes a lot of experience and practice to successfully disguise a crack like that, so being you first attempt at refinishing it will be almost impossible to stop that crack sticking out like a sore thumb.
Once everything is stripped and sanded, then you can reassemble the cabinet ready to refinish.

Once a nice original cabinet is found, then try refinishing the current cabinet, and you'll have an original cabinet you can reference to try and replicate the correct colour etc.
If it doesn't turn out right, just remove the finish and start again.
That might seem like a waste of time and materials, but it gives you a chance to correct any mistakes you feel you've made, while giving you more experience in refinishing itself.

I'm a firm believer that talking machines, or any antique furniture for that matter, should be refinished in the same colour and materials as used originally whenever possible, so an Edison phonograph should only be refinished with shellac, and using varnish, lacquer or polyurethane will always look wrong unless you've had many years of experience using those products to replicate a shellac finish.
Lacquer can of course be used on machines and other woodwork from the mid 20s onwards that had lacquer finishes.
Varnish probably isn't even made now like it was 100+ yrs ago, and polyurethane is probably best left for the coffee table you bought at Walmart 10 yrs ago, but very seldom should be used on antiques.

[gunnarthefeisty]

Personally, I think you're better off looking for a good original replacement cabinet, and once that's found, have a go at restoring the cabinet you've got then.

To do the cabinet you have now properly, it should be taken completely apart so you can strip the silver paint from inside and the present finish from the outside, and the cracked panel needs to be cleaned, glued and clamped, then later filled with wood putty to level the whole surface.
It takes a lot of experience and practice to successfully disguise a crack like that, so being you first attempt at refinishing it will be almost impossible to stop that crack sticking out like a sore thumb.
Once everything is stripped and sanded, then you can reassemble the cabinet ready to refinish.

Once a nice original cabinet is found, then try refinishing the current cabinet, and you'll have an original cabinet you can reference to try and replicate the correct colour etc.
If it doesn't turn out right, just remove the finish and start again.
That might seem like a waste of time and materials, but it gives you a chance to correct any mistakes you feel you've made, while giving you more experience in refinishing itself.

I'm a firm believer that talking machines, or any antique furniture for that matter, should be refinished in the same colour and materials as used originally whenever possible, so an Edison phonograph should only be refinished with shellac, and using varnish, lacquer or polyurethane will always look wrong unless you've had many years of experience using those products to replicate a shellac finish.
Lacquer can of course be used on machines and other woodwork from the mid 20s onwards that had lacquer finishes.
Varnish probably isn't even made now like it was 100+ yrs ago, and polyurethane is probably best left for the coffee table you bought at Walmart 10 yrs ago, but very seldom should be used on antiques.

I'm thinking I may just get a nice replacement case, and either keep the old one and work on it, or offer it up as a project for someone with more experience.

[dzavracky]

what kind of stain would I be looking at here?

If you would just read through the links….

David

[AZ*]

what kind of stain would I be looking at here?

If you would just read through the links….

David

But that takes a little effort which it seems that the OP is unwilling to invest.

[gunnarthefeisty]

whoops, I thought all those (but the cabinet) were green oak. Sorry, I'll be using these as references, thanks!

[JeffR1]

Lots of interesting stuff here, but I will post about the sliver paint problem, and what I would do with that if a customer came into our store.

Stripping paint is a PITA, even more so as it gets into the grain and that can be difficult to get out.
What makes it even more difficult is that the inside was never really finished, or I don't think there was ever a layer of shellac put on the inside _ there should have been something to seal the grain though.
If the outside has been shellacked, which it has, then the inside surface has to be sealed.
Even though the inside is not directly exposed to the moisture in the atmosphere, it should be sealed none the less.
Leaving the one side of any wood exposed to the atmosphere will cause the wood to absorb moisture, this in turn will expand the pores of the wood on "that" side and lead to warpage.
On such a small cabinet like this, it's unlikely to warp, but it can happen, the "butter-box" joints are very strong, even after a century of the hide glue drying out, the joints will keep the wood from buckling and warping.

Taking the bottom off makes things so much easier, you're not working into corners this way, and all the hardware has to come off of too course.
Use any one of the jelled furniture stripers on the market, this should be done outside and you must use gloves, the black rubber kind you get at the safety supply store.
Ordinary dish washing gloves will work, but they are kind of thin and they won't last long, but if you must, Ansell brand will last the longest.

If you just want to strip the inside, and leave the inside, then using a jelled furniture stripper will not really work, it's nearly impossible not to get the stripper where you don't want it and if you get some on a precious original decal, it will be gone almost instantly.

If the paint is in the grain very badly then you will need a brass wire brush to work it out, stainless steel ones work well too, the softer the better, tooth brushes or any plastic brushes are too soft and will most likely be eaten by the stripper.
Here is what works best for me, and these can be found at an auto supply store, brass or stainless steel barbecue brushes work well for larger jobs.

If you're cringing right about now and wondering if using these brushes on the wood, is totally going to damage the surface, I can assure that it won't. If you start with a 100 grit and finish with a 150 grit sandpaper when it's time for that, then things will work, even veneer, but one still has to be careful with veneer and sand as little as possible, even more so if a "handyman" has gotten in there before you and over sanded things, thinking that has to be done to produce a really good job.
Sand as little as possible, you can check you work with one of those new very bright LED flash lights to check for any deep scratches, but in all honesty, there won't be any.

Place your work in a plastic tub large enough to hold the work, one of those bins you get at Wal-Mart works well or a tub you would bath a baby in works very well too.
Put a nice layer of stripper on the silver paint, doing one surface at a time, don't try and do the whole thing at once _ the stripper will instantly remove the silver paint, as most likely it's just a spray on lacquer.
Continue to work the stripper in with a horse hair brush if you can find one.
Leave it sit now for about 20 minutes adding stripper as needed to keep it wet, don't let it dry out.

Wipe away the mess you have now getting rid of most of the silver slurry you have.
Apply a new thinner film of stripper and use you brass or stainless brush to work it out of the grain, working in the direction of the grain.
You will have to go against the grain somewhat into the corner, it can't be helped. (use lighter pressure)
Continue wiping away the silver laden stripper, adding and brushing.

A good trick here is when most of it's out of the grain, using methyl hydrate and scrubbing with that will ease the paint out of the grain, use lots, don't be afraid if it's swimming in methyl hydrate, but keep your bath clean, so the paint does not re-apply itself to the back side, setting the job up on a couple of small wood blocks works well.

If it's just lacquer then using just lacquer thinner will also just eat it right off, but that stuff is expensive and has a very high evaporation rate, it's also extremely smelly.

The methyl hydrate and furniture stripper will not hurt the wood or any glues, new or old, only water will hurt the old hide glue, these products are alcohol based and will not eat the glue.

I think I've given enough info here to get one started and feel comfortable doing the job, but I'm sure I'll have comments and questions.

[dzavracky]

Those brushes area a MUST if you hope to get the paint out of the grain. It took me about 10 (or more) hours to get the paint completely off the herzog (i attached that restoration link). The hardest part was getting it out of the grain, it comes off the surface of the wood really easily. But getting it out of the grain is the tedious part. The brass bristles didn't damage the veneer on the cabinet.

You can disassemble the case by removing the bottom (theres some screws underneath). And then you can carefully use a soft hammer to separate the sides... you'll need to especially careful with the left side on yours since it's cracked.

David

[gunnarthefeisty]

Lots of interesting stuff here, but I will post about the sliver paint problem, and what I would do with that if a customer came into our store.

Stripping paint is a PITA, even more so as it gets into the grain and that can be difficult to get out.
What makes it even more difficult is that the inside was never really finished, or I don't think there was ever a layer of shellac put on the inside _ there should have been something to seal the grain though.
If the outside has been shellacked, which it has, then the inside surface has to be sealed.
Even though the inside is not directly exposed to the moisture in the atmosphere, it should be sealed none the less.
Leaving the one side of any wood exposed to the atmosphere will cause the wood to absorb moisture, this in turn will expand the pores of the wood on "that" side and lead to warpage.
On such a small cabinet like this, it's unlikely to warp, but it can happen, the "butter-box" joints are very strong, even after a century of the hide glue drying out, the joints will keep the wood from buckling and warping.

Taking the bottom off makes things so much easier, you're not working into corners this way, and all the hardware has to come off of too course.
Use any one of the jelled furniture stripers on the market, this should be done outside and you must use gloves, the black rubber kind you get at the safety supply store.
Ordinary dish washing gloves will work, but they are kind of thin and they won't last long, but if you must, Ansell brand will last the longest.

If you just want to strip the inside, and leave the inside, then using a jelled furniture stripper will not really work, it's nearly impossible not to get the stripper where you don't want it and if you get some on a precious original decal, it will be gone almost instantly.

If the paint is in the grain very badly then you will need a brass wire brush to work it out, stainless steel ones work well too, the softer the better, tooth brushes or any plastic brushes are too soft and will most likely be eaten by the stripper.
Here is what works best for me, and these can be found at an auto supply store, brass or stainless steel barbecue brushes work well for larger jobs.

If you're cringing right about now and wondering if using these brushes on the wood, is totally going to damage the surface, I can assure that it won't. If you start with a 100 grit and finish with a 150 grit sandpaper when it's time for that, then things will work, even veneer, but one still has to be careful with veneer and sand as little as possible, even more so if a "handyman" has gotten in there before you and over sanded things, thinking that has to be done to produce a really good job.
Sand as little as possible, you can check you work with one of those new very bright LED flash lights to check for any deep scratches, but in all honesty, there won't be any.

Place your work in a plastic tub large enough to hold the work, one of those bins you get at Wal-Mart works well or a tub you would bath a baby in works very well too.
Put a nice layer of stripper on the silver paint, doing one surface at a time, don't try and do the whole thing at once _ the stripper will instantly remove the silver paint, as most likely it's just a spray on lacquer.
Continue to work the stripper in with a horse hair brush if you can find one.
Leave it sit now for about 20 minutes adding stripper as needed to keep it wet, don't let it dry out.

Wipe away the mess you have now getting rid of most of the silver slurry you have.
Apply a new thinner film of stripper and use you brass or stainless brush to work it out of the grain, working in the direction of the grain.
You will have to go against the grain somewhat into the corner, it can't be helped. (use lighter pressure)
Continue wiping away the silver laden stripper, adding and brushing.

A good trick here is when most of it's out of the grain, using methyl hydrate and scrubbing with that will ease the paint out of the grain, use lots, don't be afraid if it's swimming in methyl hydrate, but keep your bath clean, so the paint does not re-apply itself to the back side, setting the job up on a couple of small wood blocks works well.

If it's just lacquer then using just lacquer thinner will also just eat it right off, but that stuff is expensive and has a very high evaporation rate, it's also extremely smelly.

The methyl hydrate and furniture stripper will not hurt the wood or any glues, new or old, only water will hurt the old hide glue, these products are alcohol based and will not eat the glue.

I think I've given enough info here to get one started and feel comfortable doing the job, but I'm sure I'll have comments and questions.

Thank you for the advice! I think when I get time for it I'll try the inside first- much more room for error!