One or both springs?

gunnarthefeisty · Post by **gunnarthefeisty** » Fri Nov 05, 2021 10:19 pm

I'm currently rebuilding my Vic 3 and have a question. One spring is fairly strong still with no breaks or anything, but the other one has been riveted to repair it. Do I need to replace the springs in a pair, or can I just replace the repaired one and use the intact original?
Also, do I need to apply grease as I put the spring in, or can I just spread it on/in the spring once it's already in the barrel?
Thanks,
Gunnar Anderson

Josh_boro20 · Post by **Josh_boro20** » Fri Nov 05, 2021 10:22 pm

You won’t need to replace both in my opinion. You should be just fine with replacing the repaired one. As long as the other one is preforming fine I don’t see a need in replacing it.

Post by **gramophone-georg** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 12:31 am

And I will pop in with the opposite opinion- you are already that far into it, so why NOT replace both? That way it's good for another 100 years of service.

AZ* · Post by AZ* » Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:27 am

If you are a serious collector and plan to keep the machine as a prized member of your growing collection, I suggest that you replace both. That is what I do, and that is what many long-time collectors recommend. If you are planning to flip the machine for a profit and foist it on some unsuspecting buyer, then you can probably get by with just replacing one.

Grease needs to be eventually distributed along the entire length of the spring. I usually add the grease after the spring is in the barrel. Winding and playing the machine tends to distribute the grease.

gunnarthefeisty · Post by **gunnarthefeisty** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 2:56 am

AZ* wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:27 am If you are a serious collector and plan to keep the machine as a prized member of your growing collection, I suggest that you replace both. That is what I do, and that is what many long-time collectors recommend. If you are planning to flip the machine for a profit and foist it on some unsuspecting buyer, then you can probably get by with just replacing one.

Grease needs to be eventually distributed along the entire length of the spring. I usually add the grease after the spring is in the barrel. Winding and playing the machine tends to distribute the grease.

OK, I suppose I'll be replacing both then. White lithium grease is OK, right?

Post by **Orchorsol** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 4:43 am

As so often, there are many past threads discussing this. Received wisdom seems to be that if you replace only one spring, the other is then likely the weaker of the two and will be doing much more work, and is therefore more likely to fail sooner rather than later.

Post by **Phono-Phan** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 8:09 am

Orchorsol wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2021 4:43 am As so often, there are many past threads discussing this. Received wisdom seems to be that if you replace only one spring, the other is then likely the weaker of the two and will be doing much more work, and is therefore more likely to fail sooner rather than later.

I couldn't agree more. The new spring won't be doing much work until the weaker spring gets wound to match the strength of the new one. I have always replaced all of the main springs when doing repairs.

Post by **gramophone78** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 9:32 am

AZ* wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:27 am If you are a serious collector and plan to keep the machine as a prized member of your growing collection, I suggest that you replace both. That is what I do, and that is what many long-time collectors recommend. If you are planning to flip the machine for a profit and foist it on some unsuspecting buyer, then you can probably get by with just replacing one.

Grease needs to be eventually distributed along the entire length of the spring. I usually add the grease after the spring is in the barrel. Winding and playing the machine tends to distribute the grease.

Words of wisdom from AZ.

If you do not already have a copy of The Compleat Talking Machine, I would either buy or download a copy. Most of us have this invaluable book by Eric Reiss. Many, if not all your restoration questions can be found in it plus a lot more.
https://docplayer.net/187135048-The-com ... raphs.html

JeffR1 · Post by **JeffR1** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 9:51 am

Here is a most resent thread on grease and stuck springs, I had a bad experiences with "Green Grease" that the dyslexic genius used in his YouTube videos.
Don't use really sticky wheel bearing grease, winding the springs up really hard will cause the springs to lock.
A solid like Molybdenum or Graphite will prevent this from happening, on a double, triple or quadrable spring motor, the solids keep the layers of spring from binding against themselves.
Beware that some Molybdenum grease are wheel bearing greases and are not suitable.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=50874

And my opinion on springs, on a double spring motor, one spring winds up the other, so the one that's broken is most likely the one that gets wound to the top all the time, before the other spring even starts to get wound up.
And as mentioned even if you don't plan on selling it, it's a good idea to replace the repaired spring so it doesn't come back and bite you in the ass with an unhappy buyer in case you do sell it.

VanEpsFan1914 · Post by **VanEpsFan1914** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 12:36 pm

Those Vic 3 motors are no picnic to work on so you'll be doing well to swap them both.

As for grease, I like red grease and a shot of motor oil (whatever I happen to have around) or--better yet--a bit of STP engine oil additive. Mixing up a bit of red axle grease and STP makes a nice grease for spring coils as it stays slick. STP and Lubriplate would be awesome together.

One or both springs?

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