Problem with tone arm positioning, HMV 102

[nostalgia]

I have spent two hours this morning trying to assemble the tone arm in the right position, but can't work it out. Unfortunately the rest of my 102s are in my storage locker, so I can't compare.
It is the auto stop ( again) that harasses me, and when spending too much time on a small (big) problem my brain seems to block itself completely.
I have disassembled the complete machine to the last screw, and everything is shining, but,.,...the auto stop !!!
We can see the tonarm is stopped at the outer end by the auto stop arm, so it can only drop down 2-3 mm into the record. We can also see the auto stop pad is not touching the spindle as it is supposed to. I have used the same screw holes in the wooden motor board, but when having nothing to compare with, it is difficult.
Does someone immediately see what I have done wrong here? How far to the right should the tonearm be able to be moved?

[Inigo]

So simple as this: the finger of the tonearm must be in between the fork legs. You have it out to the right of the fork.
To set it right I believe you don't need to disassemble anything; just move the fork away from the tonearm finger and reposition it between the legs. In case of need, loosen the screws of the finger from the tonearm base so you can lift it a bit, just to pass it over the right leg and set it between the two fork legs.
Then examine it, and you'll see how it works pushing the right leg to the right when starting, our pushing the left leg to the left when the record end is reached, or again pushing the right leg to the right when the eccentric groove moves the tonearm backwards being near the label.
All this works when the auto brake lever is set in ON. When set in OFF, the lever prevents the auto brake from working, as it fixes the position of the auto brake pad big lever so it wouldn't reach the stop position.
I love this system... for me it seems the most perfect hmv auto brake. I'd love that the 194 had been provided with this type of brake.... It stops the turntable by means of the friction collar, which stops the record softer than the turntable edge brakes. I feel this way it's kinder to the poor governor springs...
Please, give us feedback...

[nostalgia]

I have now removed the tone arm, we can see that the friction collar does not touch the spindle when the fork is pushed to its maximum, it halts before the collar touches the spindle when the auto stop is in the on position. Under no cirtumstance the spindle can not touch the collar. I may very well be brain blocked this morning...

[nostalgia]

Update: I am mixing this autobrake with the autobrake found on the HMV 97, on the 97 the collar hits the spindle directly. On the 102, the collar hits the turntable rim.
The autobrake is working.
I am however not able to position the tonearm correctly, it is halted by the autobrake forks. Does someone remember how far to the right the tone arm should be able to be moved? On the photo we can see how far to the right I can get it right now. Obviously this is not correct. I have tried to loosen the tonearm and put it in different positions, but am not able to correct it.

I uploaded a video to youtube, if someone has the time to check it, and try to see what I do wrong. I spent too many hours on this now, so my brain is not allowing me to see the problem. I have tried to change the positioning of the screws holes of the tone arm support, but it does not help, it will only prevent the tone arm from reaching the forks of the auto stop, or not be able to reach the tone arm support etc. I don't know why the video changed direction on youtube, it looked normal on my pc screeen before uploading it. But I guess it is one of these days...

https://youtu.be/vij4BQ4bjh0

[Inigo]

You said:
On the 102, the collar hits the turntable rim...
No, the auto brake pad touches a friction collar inserted on the turntable center lug, a cost that has four nails, which engage the brake pad and stops the tt by the center, only trusting the friction of that movable collar.
I'll see your video and come back later...

[Inigo]

Sorry, sorry, sorry... This is not the brake I remembered. The backwards movement of the tonearm near the label doesn't trig it. It only works by a fast movement of the tonearm approaching the spindle.
Anyway, I believe I know your problem.
Here are photos of my own example, one far to the right (the soundbox falls out of the case) and to the left. You see the positions. The tonearm has also a fork, not a single finger, TWO fingers: one short (the right one) and one long (the left one). The short finger always falls at the right of the fork, and it is the long finger which must be between the brake fork legs.
I feel your problem is the screw adjustment: yu have a very long part of the screw at the left, so it prevents the tonearm from going further to the right and clear the tt rim. In mine, which works perfectly, you can see that the screw is placed with a very short prong towards the brake lever.
Photos talk by themselves...
And the tt collar hasn't four nails; it has a soft deviator to move away the brake lever in slow approach, and a nail to stop the revolving tt when the approach is faster.

IMG_20211212_142235.jpg

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IMG20211212142302_00.jpg

[nostalgia]

Thank you Inigo !! Someone has messed with the auto brake, it was the screw adjustment, someone has in the past adjusted it. It is however not the only problem, the auto brake is missing the upper closing lock, when compared to your machine. When I now adjusted the screw adjustment the turntable started bumping across the auto brake that is not tight, somewhere under the turntable when the machine is running.
I need find a new auto brake from a donor machine, or attach this lock taken from another brake.
Auto brakes..they are a constant nightmare to me...

[Inigo]

Yes, I see your top clip washer missing.
I've not checked it.. but the brake fixing washer seems similar to the one in the tt fixing it to the spindle. Maybe you could try it, as a temporary solution. Or you can carefully make something like an U pin out of thin wire.... Or cut a section from a thin steel washer to make one that fits there...

[Inigo]

Once you got it right, you'll enjoy the 102. It's one of the best gramophones ever made. It's simple and easy to maintain, and sounds wonderful!

[nostalgia]

Thank you Inigo, you put me in the right direction. I was becoming blind after spending 3 hours this morning on this machine. Yes, the 102 is a great machine, I already have quite a few, but they are stored away in a storage locker for now, after being serviced, because of small space in my home.
Lukcily I have quite a few donor machines too, so it will be easy to find this ring locker, or clip, or whatever it is called.
Thanks again !