Santa came late this year, with a HMV 163

[nostalgia]

The last 2,5 years, since I started collecting and restoring, I have with big interest read about the "Re-entrant series" of HMV gramophones on the forum. To date I have however never seen one for sale in my area, until yesterday!

My house is full of gramophones, and I have tried my best to slow down purchasing gramophones the last months, since storing gramophones in storage lockers anyway is of course not a good idea in the long run. If a machine now gets into my house, another one need to go. So now a machine needs to go, because I, of course, could not resist a 163 when it finally turned up at a reasonable price, after having read posts about this machine during the last 2,5 years.

I have some questions/remarks that about the machine, which at the time being is stored in a warm garage room, I will bring it home in a day or two.

1.We can see the circular decal is complete, I will need to find out where it should be fastened.

2. The machine is very heavy, and it is very icy (and snowy) and slippery outside my house right now, so I will need to remove the motor board, and possibly also the horn to be able to carry it safely into the house. Is the horn of considerable weight, I guess it must be the horn that makes the machine so heavy? If it is not too complicateded to remove ( any pitfalls?), I will remove the horn in the garage room together with the 32 motor/board. (The motor will anyway receive a service, with cleaning and re greasing of springs.)

3. We can see the key is present, a big plus of course. The lock is working, I did not want to try it myself with the lid closed when removing the cabinet from the car, but a friend of mine tested it before I was able to stop him, and luckily the lock was working smoothly.

4. The only flaw I can see is the corner veneer on the top of the lid. I am not sure if I will leave it as it is, or try fill in a small piece of veneer taken from a hmv donor machine. I have some dark oak pieces stored away for such work. I have earlier on sanded down a lid on a HMV 145, and applied Liberon dark oak spirit dye, before adding wax, it was very hard to see any difference from the rest of the cabinet after doing that work, but I am hesitant on this machine, admittedly, since it is a 163...The last year I have also started to use liquid shellac politure on some German cabinets, but I know cellulose lacquer was originally used on the re entrant models, so I am also hesitant to experiment too much...

Any furhter comments, or suggestions, are as always welcome.

The photos are a bit blurry, since it was dark in the garage room last night...

[Phono48]

The celluloid disc usually goes under the used needle pot ( the one with the lid), so there should be a redundant screw hole there.

Barry

[epigramophone]

Congratulations Martin. This looks like as original a 163 as one could hope to find.
The horn is indeed heavy, but my advice would be to leave it well alone.
Invite a couple of friends round to help move it, with the promise of a few beers.

Roger.

[drh]

I have no experience with that model machine, but if it's like the Victor Credenza, the motor is very heavy and the motorboard is not hard to remove (just a matter of undoing maybe four screws and lifting it out) and then to reinstall after the move. I'd be inclined to do that much disassembly, and I'd probably remove the tonearm, too, or at least the reproducer, just so it wouldn't be at risk of coming loose from any restraints you apply and then banging around during the move. And, of course, I'd remove the key. Then I'd stop there. Again going by the Credenza, as suggested above you'll still need help to move the cabinet. It's not a fun job.

[Inigo]

I have a194 which I've moved from one room to another several times, and I second all opinions herein!
Congratulations! If you use it as your daily player, you'll enjoy a lot!
The lid is tedious to remove, but you'll find that you need a grip at the top of the machine to move it around. I usually lift the lid a bit, then grip the top border, but without removing the lid... It has biten my fingers several times, but....! You can use gardener's gloves for that work, though, although I don't use them, because I loose the feeling about how strong the grip is. Of course, removing the motor board makes it easier, for you can slide your hand there in...
The horn is heavy, and I wouldn't remove it UNLESS IT IS THE FIRST TIME, that you would use also to examine the horn, seal with black paint any joints that make you doubt, and renew the felt joint between the tonearm descending pipe (the horn mouth) and the big part of the folded horn. I dismantled my 194 until the last screw, except the cabinet woodwork. And there are many places where a check, re-greasing and sealing will make wonders to the sound. Remember that all the sound conduit must be airtight for the best results!
The tonearm bearing is a nightmare, for it has seven to ten balls which must be inserted in the holes of an intermediate washer that holds then equally distributed along the pipe perimeter. But it must be done at least once. You'll need three hands to replaced them correctly!
And the soundbox. It must be perfectly airtight, but the diaphragm edge must be pressed between the thin felt gaskets just to make it airtight and no more. The needlebar well balanced, light to move, but without any side to side play. The rubber collar at the back must to be supple and airtight too. I took mine off, complete, and substituted it for one of those red rubber collars made for Meltrope soundboxes, thick tonearm size, with great success. Besides that, this collar has no brass insert, so with the screw-pin removed, you can adjust the soundbox angle for the best tracking alignment. And it fits perfectly into the soundbox back, and on the tonearm end. It's perfect!

[JerryVan]

Removing the motor should help. Also, remove the reproducer, or possibly the entire tone arm. If only removing the reproducer, bring along a rubber band, (do you call it a gum band?), and hook one end if it on the tone arm and the other end to any convenient anchor point. Keeps the tone arm from flinging around during shipment and harming itself or its surroundings.

Most important, if you need to lay the phonograph on its back to transport it, do something to keep the lid from flopping open as the cabinet is being laid on its backside. Countless lid supports and hinges have been ripped out of cabinets when this has occurred. I learned the hard way too. Also, if laying on its back, do not slide the cabinet towards you when you begin to unload it. Lift it up to move it out. Sliding on its back has a neat way removing veneer and moldings along the back edge of the lid. Yes, I've done that too.

Congratulations! I know you'll enjoy it every time you lay eyes, and ears, on it!

[epigramophone]

When transporting a cabinet gramophone on it's back I lay it on a heavy travelling rug.
It can then be slid out without damage by pulling on the rug and not the cabinet.

As for accidental damage, I once saw someone load a machine into their car and slam the tailgate shut.
The front legs of the cabinet then smashed through the rear window.

[JerryVan]

When transporting a cabinet gramophone on it's back I lay it on a heavy travelling rug.
It can then be slid out without damage by pulling on the rug and not the cabinet.

As for accidental damage, I once saw someone load a machine into their car and slam the tailgate shut.
The front legs of the cabinet then smashed through the rear window.

I would have paid the price admission to have been there.

[HMVDevotee]

My congratulations as well on your 163. As has been said by others, the 163 "punches above it's weight," and if you fit it with a Victor Orthophonic (brass if you can find one), you will be further impressed.

And I agree with both Roger and Inigo, leave the heavy horn in place. Removing it puts both the doors, grill (and cloth), and surrounding casework at risk for damage. If you feel compelled to examine the condition of the horn's seams, try using a borescope as I did with my 193. I did have to remove the grill, but was able to illuminate the interior of the horn and then used the scope to snake along the exterior to look for light "leaks" along the seams.

Robert

[nostalgia]

Thank you for all congratulations, advice and suggestions.
The photo ih the first post shows the gramophone inside the garage room where I repair/restore gramophones during the summer. It here already had traveled 100 km inside my car, from the seller's house. Luckily the seller was a careful man, and the car could stand in an upright position in the back of my car, with a margin of 2 cm. I think my old Rav4 was made for transporting floor gramophones.
I have today removed the motor board, and the top lid. This way I don't have to think about damaging the top lid, and also I can now carry the gramophone horisontally from my car into the house, a distance of 15 meters ( on ice and snow). Carrying it horisontally feels better, since my friend who will help me is not too experienced in such work. I will ask him to hold the feet of the gramophone, while I myself will carry around the top area, using gloves to get a better grip if needed.

When removing the motor today, I was very suprised to see the state of the motor. After servicing many 32 motors the last couple of years, and tenfolds of other motors, this is the first motor that actually looks this good, and the grease is all very soft etc. It looks like it was recently serviced! I have to date never seen a better looking 32 motor, and how convenient it was found inside this great machine!

I also inspected the horn, it looks great, no gaps, no rust..absolutely no visible damage to my eye.

Inigo, thanks for telling about the tonearm, that there are ball bearings inside, make me drop removing the horn. When watching the state of the horn, I also see no point in removing it.

Thank you also to everyone else too for showing interest and giving advice and tips, you know who you are:)
I add some photos of the motor, and one of the horn, and how it looked when I removed the motor today.
Tomorrow I will drive the cabinet home, and carry it indoors.
I can't wait really to start listening to it. !!
I will add a few more photos when it is installed at home, and also upload a video of it playing.