Berliner's trip to England where he saw Nipper

[AllenKoe]

Hi,

According to most sources, it was during Emile Berliner's trip to England in 1899 when he saw Barraud's now famous painting of Nipper & the Gramophone ('His Master's Voice'), hanging on the wall of W. B. Owen's office. Emile would then file the portrayal for US Trademark protection in 1900 (Reg. 34,890), and it appeared on the back of Berliner's last US catalog ('June 1900' but issued in May).

Have I missed seeing any exact dates (or Ships' names) for this momentous voyage of EB, leaving from the US or returning back from England?

Allen

[Starkton]

Emile visited London in May 1899 to sell all the European Berliner patents to Trevor Williams. This was months before Francis Barraud first approached William Barry Owen in the Gramophone Company office in September 1899.

[epigramophone]

The following chronology is based upon documentation contained in the official EMI archives.

31 May 1899. Barraud calls at the Gramophone Company's office and leaves a photograph of his painting.

15 September 1899. After negotiations on a purchase price, the Gramophone Company makes a formal offer conditional on Barraud painting out the phonograph and replacing it with the then current model of the gramophone.

17 October 1899. The finished painting is delivered to the Gramophone Company.

April/May 1900. Berliner visits Britain for negotiations with Trevor Williams and sees the painting. On his return to the USA he cables Barry Owen requesting him to assign the copyright for the USA. Owen agrees and on 26 May 1900 Berliner applies to register the picture as a Trademark.

[Starkton]

Thank you for the addition. Will the EMI archive finally be digitised and put online so that everyone can research it?

[AllenKoe]

All of this info is very interesting of course, and much described by Len Petts' long-ago book on the origins of Nipper.

But I was really trying to get EXACT dates of travel and the Ship names for EB's trip(s). I do note that Emile applied for (and was granted) a US Passport in March of 1899 (which he used to depart NYC), but do not see any other trans-Atlantic schedules (or the specific Ships involved) for him. That/those return trip(s) have even escaped the data of Ancestry.

Why is that detail never mentioned (or sought) up till now? Are people suggesting that there were TWO trips involved, one in 1899 and another in 1900? And I can't imagine why the 'EMI Archives' (The Gramophone Co) would care about what ships Emile traveled on - that concern is only for us "history wonks." We soldier on...

Allen

[Starkton]

We have tried to help you with our answers. Emile Berliner's stay in London in May 1899 is irrelevant to the question of when Berliner saw the painting for the first time. So you don't have to worry about the travel dates of 1899. According to the EMI archive, you must instead concentrate on Berliner's trip in April/May 1900. Limiting Berliner's stay to certain days was apparently not of interest to Petts - and apparently not to Peter Martland either. Since the archive is practically inaccessible, you will have to help yourself, I'm afraid.

[AllenKoe]

According to the EMI archive, you must instead concentrate on Berliner's trip in April/May 1900.

I am not sure that I understand this advice. As far as I can tell (so far), there is no evidence that Berliner traveled to England in April/May 1900.

Allen

[soundgen]

All UK arrivals and departures are available at the National archives in the UK 1890 to 1960

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/hel ... assengers/

BUT instead of allowing free access they have teamed up with

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/colle ... name_x=1_1

and
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/search- ... -1890-1960

and to get the full information you need to do a free trial and cancel before they charge you or pay £14 to get access immediately

I guess you can probably visit them at The National Archives , Kew, Richmond TW9 4DU and search yourself for free

[AllenKoe]

Hi SoundGen,

Thank you for this info, I have had Ancestry for quite a while and find it very useful.

When your lead is further investigated, it turns out that this clipping of "Emile Berliner" (age 74) arrived in Southampton, England in 1936. Close but no cigar...

The problem is that "our" Emile Berliner died in Aug 1929 (verified).

So I stand by my original comment on this thread that we do not (yet if ever) have EB arriving/departing England in 1900.
He certainly went there in March of 1899, but we have no such travel info for him to/from England in 1900, other than some unverified claims. The door is always open to some evidence.

Best
Allen

[Sidewinder]

On the archive of passenger arrivals, try E Berliner, arriving at liverpool?