First Brunswick Panatrope

[gunnarthefeisty]

Which Panatrope came first- the P-3, or the P-11?
Or were they both designed in mid-late 1925?
Thanks.

[Skihawx]

The P-14 is the earliest electronic design. Never made sense to me my they would start with 14.
85

[streetmechanic14]

Skihawx & Gunnar-
Thanks guys for shedding some light on what for me was a long-standing mystery- namely Brunswick's claim to electronic phonograph priority. Phonograph historians routinely tell how Victor was supposedly lukewarm about electronic reproduction of records; instead pushing their acoustic Orthophonic Victrolas. Two problems occur to me immediately: (1) Some accounts of the November 1925 "Victor Day" cite the Cromwell Electrola (likely a hand-built prototype, but still) as one of the machines demonstrated. (2) Given the price range of the electronic machines Victor, as a marketing necessity, had to stress the acoustic machines; to have done otherwise would have been business suicide. Of course, this would have been just as true for Brunswick but I'm guessing matters there were desperate and a big advertising coup like the Panatrope seemed their only option.
All this leaves the reference to the Panatrope in an August '25 New York Times article (or ad, or both, I've not seen it) as a remaining mystery. Since RCA introduced their 104 speaker, eight-tube catacomb, power output tubes, lots of other stuff too at one time in September that year what exactly did the August Panatrope look like and use? It seems unlikely that RCA or GE would have released any advance information about their plans to anybody.
Gunnar- My advice about the Panatrope you know about is "Buy it!". In fifty years of collecting I've owned a Cromwell, Tuscany, and 12-25- currently own an 8-60, Hyperion, and 10-51. I've never run across a P-3! If I ever got one of those scruffy dealer conversions I'd consider it a highlight of my collection.
-Dave

[OrthoFan]

All this leaves the reference to the Panatrope in an August '25 New York Times article (or ad, or both, I've not seen it) as a remaining mystery. -Dave

According to what I've found, the article, from the Aug. 15 1925 edition of the NYT is titled "PANATROPE RECORD SUCCESSFUL IN TESTS; First Demonstration Shows Invention Superior in Recording Wide Range of Music." (From: https://www.nytimes.com/sitemap/1925/08/15/ )

I think they're referring just to the recording process, which would later be known as "Light Ray" though initially, it was referred to as the "Pallotrope" recording process-- https://78records.wordpress.com/tag/bru ... g-process/ .

Anyone here subscribe to the New York Times?

OF

[gunnarthefeisty]

All this leaves the reference to the Panatrope in an August '25 New York Times article (or ad, or both, I've not seen it) as a remaining mystery. -Dave

According to what I've found, the article, from the Aug. 15 1925 edition of the NYT is titled "PANATROPE RECORD SUCCESSFUL IN TESTS; First Demonstration Shows Invention Superior in Recording Wide Range of Music." (From: https://www.nytimes.com/sitemap/1925/08/15/ )

I think they're referring just to the recording process, which would later be known as "Light Ray" though initially, it was referred to as the "Pallotrope" recording process-- https://78records.wordpress.com/tag/bru ... g-process/ .

Anyone here subscribe to the New York Times?

OF

Yes- there is some talk of the machine in August, but in TMW there's a LOT of talk in September of their fabulous new machine. I'm working on taking a look at the P-3. It's not going anywhere.

[streetmechanic14]

September is believable, though Brunswick must have camped on GE's doorstep to be among the first to get hold of the tomcat amplifier and 104 speaker. This they might have done though anticipating (and ultimately getting) the enormous publicity.
Not especially apropos but does anybody know what the Brunswick PR-6 looked like? Judging from the schematic and a few shards of one that another collector gave me years ago it must have been a unique and primitive gadget.
-Dave

[gunnarthefeisty]

September is believable, though Brunswick must have camped on GE's doorstep to be among the first to get hold of the tomcat amplifier and 104 speaker. This they might have done though anticipating (and ultimately getting) the enormous publicity.
Not especially apropos but does anybody know what the Brunswick PR-6 looked like? Judging from the schematic and a few shards of one that another collector gave me years ago it must have been a unique and primitive gadget.
-Dave

Probably just an Ultona cabinet, with the switch in the crank hole and the 6" speaker where the horn would be. The slightly later Brunswick P-3s followed that pattern, and seemed to be very much thrown together in a rush- I wouldn't be surprised if they were similar.

[gunnarthefeisty]

The P-14 is the earliest electronic design. Never made sense to me my they would start with 14.
85

BTW, this couldn't be- the P-14 used the Cortez cabinet, BOTH of which only came into existence around mid 1926.

[streetmechanic14]

Pardon me for obsessing on the PR-6 but from the schematic it appears to be very early and to have not even a rough equivalent among the Victor Electrolas. The use of a UX-213 and a single 71 in the output is, as far as I know, unique, and (assuming that what Brunswick called the "1-B" radio panel was part of the PR-6 although this is not stated explicitly in the literature I have)would make this the only Panatrope to require batteries as well as household AC before you could play any records.
-Dave

[gunnarthefeisty]

Pardon me for obsessing on the PR-6 but from the schematic it appears to be very early and to have not even a rough equivalent among the Victor Electrolas. The use of a UX-213 and a single 71 in the output is, as far as I know, unique, and (assuming that what Brunswick called the "1-B" radio panel was part of the PR-6 although this is not stated explicitly in the literature I have)would make this the only Panatrope to require batteries as well as household AC before you could play any records.
-Dave

Don't worry! It does sound very early, and I too am curious about the appearance. If you see my posts, you'll see that I'm just a tad obsessed with Brunswick in general.