IBOTA wax?

[larryh]

Just wondering if some are familiar with IBOTA wax used on 78 records. A friend of mine who is a large long time collector ask me if I knew anything about it. From what I gather its in a sort of dust form that you sprinkle over the records and wipe it over it to polish the grooves with a record duster type cloth? Supposed to be popular among japanese collectors. Any one here every tried it or heard of it?

Larry

[Wolfe]

" Chinese white wax, pela, or Ibota wax, made by the combination of the insect, Coccus cerifus and specific Asian trees"

It's some kind of lubricant that some people use on their records when they play them on the ol' Victrola.

I've never used it. Not a fan of putting any kind of crud (be it wax, Armor All, shoe polish, etc.) on records.

[SittingRabbit]

I've heard of this even a dealer of it, but not sure about putting something on my records. Makes sense in making it more slippery, but what are the long term effects of it? Will it destroy the shellac over time?

[52089]

If you search on YouTube for "Ibota wax" you'll find videos from multiple board members about the benefits of this product, which is also sold by a board member here.

[Inigo]

Orchorsol sells both the Ibota wax and the BCN thorn needles, for which he's now the owner of the brand and materials, and fabrication processes.

[CarlosV]

Ibota wax is effective to reduce friction on worn records. It works quite well on vertical Pathés, that are notorious for making the needle skid when worn. I did not notice any improvement on records in good condition.

[SittingRabbit]

Thanks! Just sent you an email in regards to educating me further, what to get, etc. If you didn't receive it, here it is below. I'm replying here so that others might get some incite and education from you when you reply. As for when I order, we can PM, email, etc.

"Hello!

I've only been into victrola's for a few years now and can't get enough of them! I started out with a simple VV-100 and graduated to a Credenza and a VE 8-35x. A couple of years ago, I got a large collection of several thousand records that I'm still going through and putting into inventory. I have also acquired some rare and expensive records that I cannot bring myself to putting a steel needle on, so I bought some cactus and fiber needles. I also have an old rusty sharpener that I have yet to figure out and use. In the included picture of this email is: the unopened packet of cactus needles, the triangular needles, the cutter, and the pink looking cactus needle that I've used dozens of times (it's still going and I turn it a quarter of a turn inside the soundbox between plays. It can't hurt the record doing this, correct?). Yes, I read the BCN FaQ.

On the talking machine forum, I was told you are the go to guy for cacti/fibre needles, cutters, everything needle related. What all do I need? First, can you educate me on everything? From what I think I know, cactus needles are the least harmful to records no matter how old the record as long as they're shellac, correct? Fiber and bamboo are close, with steel being the harshest even though they're tipped with something (graphite?). I've been told none of these, no matter if they're steel (as long as they're used only once for 1 song), will hurt records; is this correct? Yes, I'm the guy who plays the same record hundreds of times haha! I'm also wanting to know about your ibota powder as it looks interesting and makes sense to me.

My thoughts were buying your cactus needles in 100 bulk, an original cutter (whichever is the best one you have and recommend), maybe one of those little black top hats you have listed, ibota wax with everything necessary to use it (if you have another little sack/bag like the one you personally use, I'd pay extra for it), your large disiccator pot to keep things in (how many will it hold?), your record brush, and your fibre needle adapter since I have some of those needles and both of my players use reproducers that have round hole ends. Anything else you'd recommend, I'm game.

Thank you for your time and your help!"

[Orchorsol]

Just about to reply to you directly - thanks! - but since you've posted here, I'll reproduce most of my reply in case others find it interesting or useful. It's fairly typical of replies to other similar enquiries.

You have a cutter for triangular bamboo fibre needles (the Hall ones and those in the plastic bag). Seeing the corrosion, unless the blade is clean and sharp it might not work properly, but you could try! Simply insert one and snap the cutter shut. They work by slicing a little bit off the end of the needle, so you get far fewer new points (sharpenings) with bamboo fibres than you can get with thorn needles, where only a tine amount is ground off.

That pink thorn may well be an old BCN. All the old brands of thorn needle are much the same although they vary in colour and thickness. The Duotone product is probably the same as Peter Grey thorns. If you’ve played that pink needle many times without sharpening, I doubt it sounds as well as it should, probably fuzzy/mushy. You can sharpen thorn needles by hand on an abrasive surface (240 grade wet-and-dry is best), holding at approximately the correct angle and stroking the needle to and fro whilst spinning it between your fingers – but a proper sharpener is more accurate and economical. The Peter Grey sharpeners in the US are very good, but there seems to be a bigger variety here in the UK – various types of BCN, IM Pointmaster, Universal, etc.

I’m not aware of any steel needles having a graphite treatment – I can’t see how that would last even for a second! Some gramophiles used to put powdered graphite on their records back in the day (Aladdinite was one product). Generally, I agree strongly with people who object to putting any treatment on their records, but ibota is the one exception for me – it’s a dry waxy powder, only a tiny amount is used, and it’s chemically/biologically homologous with shellac itself.

The large desiccator pot will probably hold a couple of thousand thorns at a guess! The small pot will probably hold 200 easily. Candidly they’re only necessary if you live in a damp/humid climate or house, but some people like them.

I’m attaching my current list of sharpeners available. As you can see, there are lots to choose from. I encourage people to find their own ‘in the wild’ if they want to, and I can assist and supply spares to get them working, but all those I sell are working well already. I keep the prices realistic according to what I see selling elsewhere, but occasionally a bargain can be had on the likes of eBay – on the other hand, there are often wildly overpriced ones there too!

[Orchorsol]

P.S. (I forgot to answer this question) - to all intents and purposes I believe thorns & fibres can't hurt records.

However, in extremis... There is a train of thought that needle materials other than steel don't conduct transient heat from friction away as well as steel. This is at a microscopic level and for infinitesimal time. I once saw some 78s from an old dance venue that had been played probably thousands of times with thorns or fibres - they looked glossy but the grooves had a curious 'widened' look about them and didn't sound great.

However, in extremis... Steel needles would cause very serious wear played the same number of times!

As mentioned on the website, condition of the soundbox/reproducer is critical to all this. If it's a good quality type, well rebuilt and adjusted, and therefore compliant, the needle can follow the groove easily and vastly less wear will result.