slightly O/T: USB turntable on Woot.com today

[phonophan79]

http://www.woot.com/

Woot.com is one of those "deal a day" websites that sells one product per day, today is ION Audio Profile LP USB Turntable.

A lot of positive comments on the woot.com discussion section about the product.

...but I would imagine a true audiophile or phono-enthusiast would want to convert vinyl though an actual sound medium (ie: RCA, mini-jack, sound card input) as opposed to USB.

Any one here have experience with USB turntables?

Also doesn't play 78s, blah.

Also (again)... if you convert your records to digital, what software do you use?

I've heard mixed reviews from Audacity. Discussion for this product mentions a program called "Spin it Again". Anyone ever use? http://www.acoustica.com/spinitagain/

[barnettrp21122]

I have a mid-range Stanton T-90 USB turntable that I like a lot. It has a USB output, plus RCA phono outputs that can be switched to work in an amplifier's "phono" input, or in the absence of that, a regular "tape" input.
I assume that the USB output uses the standard RIAA turnover frequency curve, and I use this for most lp transfers. I use the phono output for 78 rpm transfers, using a flat preamp (no equalization)to the computer input and later add a suitable curve to the audio wavefile when cleaning up any transfer.
The turntable you mention would be okay for casual lp and 45 rpm transfers, but not much good for advanced work. You have no variable speed control, along with no 78 rpm speed. These issues can be addressed with sound restoration programs, but it's easier to do it right from the start if you have a lot of records to transfer.
I've used the Diamond Cut restoration programs for years and have been happy with the results. They've continued to improve the noise reduction filters, etc., allowing a lot of flexibility without adding overbearing digital artifacts
to the final sound, when used with care.
Here's a link to their website:
http://www.diamondcut.com/store/index.php
Bob

[syncopeter]

If you're serious about transfering your precious records to digital, this machine is completely insufficient. You'd be far better off buying a record player at a thrift shop, find a nice stylus, put it through a 1970s amp and feed that into your PC. That may cost you around $150 in total, but the difference in quality is immense.
And use Diamond Cut software to de-click and de-crackle your 78s. It is about the only program that was developed to restore the old format, apart from CEDAR, but that is incredibly expensive and has a huge learning curve. I used an early version and it was the only program that didn't introduce huge digital artifacts when filtering.
Any new turntable under $200 is bound to be cr*p anyhow. It is simply not possible to build a good quality machine - including hardware to convert analog to digital - for less than around $500. A reasonable quality soundcard is more expensive than the 50 bucks they charge for the whole assembly.

[JHolmesesq]

I actually own an ION turntable not dissimilar to this one (except mine has a 78 speed).

It was the first turntable I bought, when I quickly realised that the 1929 windup columbia picnic phono I got would quickly wear my discs out (at this point I was a very novice collector, and I was literally just getting in to the hobby).

Since I was also a bit impoverished at that time, I decided to look on ebay for a cheap turntable, and I bought the ION one (literally for £30. The thought of spending any more than that at the time, being all novice etc, was a bit offputting to me, if only I'd have known I would have spent £100 on a single record a year later LOL)

I use the USB output to digitise my records with the help of Audacity but it's nowhere near as good as some of the transfers I hear online today. It's fine for "live" listening though - I have it plugged into my DAB Radio which gives some great sound on my Bix discs!

However (and more crap stuff) it really fails in the 33/45 department. I'm pretty sure records aren't meant to skip as much as they do when played on a machine - because every LP I own skips like hell, even when it's in NM condition. It's just too cheap and flimsy, I'm going to upgrade my turntable and get a KAB Transcriber 2 from Kabusa in the states.

[WDC]

A few months ago I purchased a Gemini TT-1000 turntable for about $70 with capability of playing 78s and pitch control just to have one overseas to make transfers wile being in the US. I have to testify that is not a piece of crap at all but works just fine.
The only problem I could find was that the speed was not well adjusted by factory. I simply used the pitch control to correct that, and the turntable would then run completely flawless. One has to bear in mind that even cheap turntables are superior technology compared to what was around when a 1930's record was made.

But the ION Audio Profile LP USB Turntable is something I would also oppose to simply because of one reason: It does not seem to be equipped with an SME tornarm connector.
Such an SME jack will allow you to easy swap headshells to quickly switch between different pickups. Get a robust cartridge and (the most imporant thing) some good styli. I am still delighted by the Stanton 500 cartridge and the 3 mil styli by Pfanstiehl. For vinyl I prefer and original Sure M75-6 with custom styli, but you really can't go wrong with the Stanton.

Another non-price quality sign is the turntable itself which should not be made from plastic but something heavier like cast aluminum. This will help with a constant speed. My $70 Gemini did come with an aluminum turntable.

Regarding USB outputs: For standard use it might be okay. I prefer to sample with 24 bits instead of 16 which will allow me to get a much greater reserve for dynamics when using a larger headroom (the space between the signal and maximum peak level). After filterling, the final step is the conversion down to 16 bits for CD standard. The built in USB soundcards of these turntable usually cannot handle 24 bits. However, I normally use my Tascam field recorder and the ordinary line output. The built-in pre-amps are simple but really not a problem for old records. Any equalizing correction can be easily made afterwards on the computer.

You absolutely can get very professional results by the use of a simple turntable.

However, I prefer a pricy selection when it comes to software. I use Adobe Audition with Sony NR plugin filters. Both together are a very, very powerful combination. I did also try Diamond Cut but found the overall filter quality not convincing plus it was rather slow and the user interface is akward. Tastes are different and this is only my personal experience, of course.

Also a good software will not automatically clean up your transfers. It is important to sort the filters in a correct way so that they will not disturb each other. One rule of thumb I learned long time ago is to first apply any delickers before doing anything with noise or hiss reduction.

My turntable at home was sold for about $150 ten years ago. A friend of mine upgraded it to also run at 78rpm. Beside the generally better adjusted default speed it does absolutely do the same.

Liston to the attachment of I which I am sure no person would be able to tell what price range of turntable was used to transfer the original record. Of course, there is a lot a junk on the market but there are also some excellent budget players available.

[Swing Band Heaven]

Such an SME jack will allow you to easy swap headshells to quickly switch between different pickups. Get a robust cartridge and (the most imporant thing) some good styli. I am still delighted by the Stanton 500 cartridge and the 3 mil styli by Pfanstiehl.

I totally agree with this. The Stanton 500 is very good and having the ability to change the cartridge rather than fiddling with the stylus is a very good idea. The 3 mil that WDC refers to is also very good and this seller on ebay is where I get my stylus from as well. Its a 3mil conical which gives good sound. I want to upgrade to a 3.3 TE but they are expensive so for the moment I am more than happy with the 3mil conical.

Regarding USB outputs: For standard use it might be okay. I prefer to sample with 24 bits instead of 16 which will allow me to get a much greater reserve for dynamics when using a larger headroom (the space between the signal and maximum peak level).

Yes, better to over sample as I find that way the declick tools work more effectively to remove noise without introducing distortion.

You absolutely can get very professional results by the use of a simple turntable.

Yes. The only problem is sorting the wheat from the chaff. The only reason I went for a mid range turntable was I had particular requirements and Kab Transcriber 2 fitted all of my needs. To me it was worth paying a bit more and to date I have been delighted with it.

[syncopeter]

Years ago I had people coming over to my house to transfer some 78s for restoration and re-issue. They had a Linn record deck with them, professionally adjusted to play 78 with the correct styli.
It turned out that my 1961 Acoustical (Dutch company) with All Balance arm was far superior to their new and expensive TT (I paid 10 guilders i.e. 5 euros for mine).
They did over 500 transfers using both TTs, but had to ditch most of ones made with their own TT.
A simple USB table may be ok to do some low to medium quality analog to digital conversion for use in your car or MP3 player. I wouldn't use it to preserve special things to posterity, particularly not when the record needs more restoration than simple de-clicking. The more information you pick up (using at least 18 bits sampling, but preferably more) the better the outcome will be. Cheap USB players also tend to introduce a lot of digital artifacts on records that aren't brand spanking new.
There is a small company in Britain going the cheapo way of transfering and restoring 78s. The CD's they issue are absolutely horrible. The sound is completely flat, as if it is a 10th generation copy of a well-used cassette tape, made on a 1960s portable recorder. There are no clicks, crackle and hiss on them, but they lost all the music too. I won't disclose the name of the company here, but if you send me a pm I can tell, which brand you should avoid at al cost.

[WDC]

Well, I'm not denying that there many of the chepos are made for the garbage. But as long as you know which features to look after you can really get very satisfactory results.
It reminds me of a friend who is still using his Lenco L75 which I (may all Lenco fans forgive me) consider to be a very troublesome machine. The friction gear does cause more rumble than an average belt drive and the tonearm assembly is horrible, especially because of the anti-skating unit which used a simple weight on a link.

Anyway, my point was, that you in the vast majority of all cases, poor results are caused by poor filtering. I do also hate it when they apply any kind of filters, mostly NR and set them so strong that it sounds like something out of the trashcan. And some even increase this dreadfulness by adding some reverb. *yikes*

Surely as I said, the built-in USB soundcards (that is what a USB turntable has) are quite inferior. But even these TTs have a regular audio output which then can be used with a better A/D changer.

I am also pleased to hear that we have several members around who also sample with more than 16 bits. And just as S-B-H said, the filter does work more precisely.

[phonophan79]

Never heard of this brand, but first USB turntable that I've seen that has 78 RPM speed, $34.99 w/free shipping.

http://www.buy.com/prod/vibe-sound-3-sp ... 01660.html

Although there is one line in the product description that reads:

"WARNING: Those old LPs are degrading with each passing day - transfer them before it's too late!"

MY RECORDS ARE DEGRADING JUST SITTING ON MY SHELF??!! Maybe a good line for cassettes and tape formats.