My new recording setup

[SteveinAlaska]

Well, it has taken me long enough to get to this point, but here I sit with an new Windows 2010 based laptop that I have downloaded Adobe Audition 3 (trial edition). Been viewing YouTube videos on the same along with experimenting with my home stereo system on electric records(33&45). Connect to the REC out on a 1972 Pioneer amp/receiver...But that's another story.

RECORDING ACOUSTIC....I know that my players will produce anywhere from 60 to 95 decibels dependent on record and needle combination, but you all know that. So I would like to set a mic into or very close to the sound horn of my players. With the mic connected direct to my computer.(If necessary,I could mic through my amp/receiver but I don't think that would be the way to go).

So a question to the assembled...Any mic recommendations? What works for you? Your volume settings if you are an Adobe Audition user?
I would like to end up with CD's of good enough quality to use for a radio show or be played out in public for historical background effect.
In advance, thank you for any help.

[adamsih300u]

Hi Steve,

I'm embarking on the same journey myself, at the moment - recording from my Brunswick acoustic to computer. I use a program called 'Audacity', it's freely available and open-source which means you can have the full version without any fuss. You will need to get a plugin for it to encode MP3s, but the instructions to do this are on their website. I find it works quite well.

My setup (see photo) is kind of two-fold. I have a Canon 5D Mk. II camera that I use to record 1080p video for YouTube. I also record onto Audacity on my computer so I have an audio only file. To do this, I use a reasonably recommended mic - the Samson G-Track. It's a USB condenser studio microphone, but it also has a monitor out port on it, ostensibly so a musician can hear how they sound. I use the monitor out port to feed the camera, so that I get the high quality audio right on the video file without having to do any post-processing. I can also, of course, edit the audio file I get in Audacity.

I find my best route with the Samson mic, and indeed with probably any USB mic with this level of control (It has two main controls on the front: a mic gain level, and a volume gain level for the monitor out port) is to keep the mic gain high, and the input to both the camera and computer low. This helps eliminate the large amounts of hiss mid end mics tend to have. The only way to get away from hiss, that I'm aware of, is to either buy a super expensive mic, or a dynamic mic. A dynamic mic isn't necessarily as accurate, though, in the lower price points.

Hiss has been a problem, I'm starting to eliminate it...
I have a couple of videos that demonstrate where I'm at:
[youtubehd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLIuTYyqkqw[/youtubehd]
[youtubehd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GURo7p-SZ88[/youtubehd]

Nothing terrific, but in the first video I've managed to eliminate a lot of the hiss while retaining the audio quality. It's still a work in progress, of course.

Here's the photo (don't mind the mess, I haven't much space in my apartment):


I need a lot of light for the videos, but the part you're interested in is the mic, which I keep fairly close to the horn output. I try not to use the volume control on the phonograph itself, since that affects tone, so I have to pre-set my volume controls ahead of time to account for any loud dynamics on a particular record (mostly to benefit the camera, Audicity is more forgiving).

[yankmycrank]

Sounds like the motor (and speed governor) could use some attention. A nice Brunswick like yours shouldn't have that much wow. Video quality is fine, especially the intelligent mike placement.

[adamsih300u]

Thanks...I'm still trying to iron out the speed controls, I ran a strobe on it tonight with the Ultona on a record - I forgot to account for how heavy that thing is. It's got new springs put in, and the rest of the motor is pretty clean, so it's just down to tweaking. The speed warbling was actually quite a bit worse at first, as shown in the Harry Lauder record. If I played that one back now (and I may well do so to make a new video) it should not warble now, having re-oiled the governor.

I've definitely got rid of the hiss now on all my newer videos, it's definitely a matter of keeping the INPUT volume on the recording computer (or camera) low, and the mic gain (at least on this particular mic) quite high. These old acoustics have a tremendous dynamic range, and it takes a bit of trial and error to wrap a digital recording kit around it. I am also pleased that the placement of the mic doesn't pick up the occasional resonance that the reproducer has...I hear it and wince, but the mic generally does not - obviously this wouldn't be an issue if the lid were closed, but what fun would that be video-wise?

[Henry]

Sounds like the motor (and speed governor) could use some attention. A nice Brunswick like yours shouldn't have that much wow. Video quality is fine, especially the intelligent mike placement.

Yes. Solo piano recordings are the gold standard for hearing wow, probably because there should be absolutely no pitch variation on "sustained" notes (see below) since it is impossible to introduce vibrato on the piano. Perhaps another thread should be started on the limitations of the piano as a musical instrument, its glorious repertory and surpassing practitioners notwithstanding. For example, on the piano it is impossible to crescendo on a sustained note, or, for that matter, to have a controlled diminuendo on a sustained note, both of which are fundamental and essential characteristics of wind and string instruments, as well as the human voice. A note on the piano begins to fade away as soon as it is struck, and only high artistry and a superior instrument together can create the illusion that this is not so.

Very impressive set-up, adamsih300u! Other than the wow, your machine sounds terrific.

[Wolfe]

Sounds like the motor (and speed governor) could use some attention. A nice Brunswick like yours shouldn't have that much wow.

I hear flutter on the Iturbi record.

The phonograph's internal works should maybe have another jolly good going over?

[adamsih300u]

Wolfe - I know! I'm still trying to work bugs out. Honestly, the acoustic flutter (which I differentiate on this record from the motor's wow problem) only occurs on this record -so far it's the only piano record I have. I think it might be because I had the tonearm in too far (these Ultona's are COMPLICATED!), I've extended it a little bit so that there should be less drag on the Victor needle, and so that the needle is more straight on with the groove, but I haven't tried the piano records yet again. I'll be reposting the early videos, but I'm glad I've posted what I have so far so I can get the feedback. I will probably play the Iturbi record on my Fisher turntable to verify 'proper' sound (though my Fisher's cartridge overloads ridiculously easily - it's original, and a project for another day)

Henry - I definitely agree on the limitations of the piano. I play piano, and enjoy it very much, but my first love is the organ. It's so versatile, since you can have all sorts of dynamics on sustained notes. Plus the tonal spread on a good organ is enough to blow the mind. But pianos are easier to come by, at least. I'm playing a lot of classical records early on so I can get the best feel for the acoustic accuracy of this Brunswick, I love the thing (it's my first - got it for $40, and have been working on it over a month now), but working the smaller bugs out is a bit of a chore. Especially with that heavy reproducer...I've tried to run it with the weight back to limit stress on the records, but it'll tend to get stuck toward the end of the record - which ruins my videos, and wastes another needle.

I think I may need a Brunswick Panatrope (Equal to the Orthophonic) next... For those....NEWER records.

[adamsih300u]

I hope the OP is getting some benefit out of this. I'd hate to think I hijacked the thread.

[Henry]

Other conditions causing pitch variation are an off-center hole (the tone arm/"taper tube" will oscillate back and forth laterally), and a wobbly turntable (warped casting or bent spindle, = vertical oscillation). Either of these situations will cause changes in rotational velocity, thus the perception of pitch variation. But I don't see evidence of either on the videos here.

[adamsih300u]

Nope, the physical parts are all in really good shape - straight and properly fitting (though I do need a tighter spring for the brake mechanism - I have to lock the brake on manually). Plus, I don't THINK it's the speed drops are regular thing, like every revolution or so, it seems to just happen when it feels like it. It may be that the governor is getting tighter against the other gears in one spot or something...I'll have to keep looking.