Anyone knows what happened to the Pathé master cylinders?

[transformingArt]

I recently got three paper label Pathé discs from mid-1920s. They were reissues of their early operatic selections made in early 1900s, and since I actually have an earlier issue of one of them, I could have some time to compare those two discs carefully. Both sounded pretty dim, but although the later issue showed obvious signs of wear on the original master cylinder, (plus the fact the announcement/first 8 bars of piano were cut on this paper label issue) it actually sounded much better than the earlier one. From this I started to wonder what happened to those original Pathé master cylinders.

I know they were used until 1929 or even later than that. I have seen/heard an example of 1913 Tito Schipa issued on 1929 lateral Pathé and a 1935 issue of the 1912 recording of Alfred Dreyfus reciting excerpts from his Memoirs, but I don't know what eventually became of them afterwards. I have never heard a decent-sounding reissue of Pathé recordings anywhere so far, so I assume most of them doesn't exist anymore, but I wonder if there are any survivors or any information what happened to them.

One more thing; I also heard that those Pathé master cylinders were capable of recording 7-8 minutes on one cylinder - is it true? And if it is so, why Pathé chose to issue the recordings with standard playing time of about 3 minutes?

[Wolfe]

I had heard that they attempted to move a large number of them, at some point (maybe in the 30's) and a great many were broken in transit. As for the rest, I don't know.

There are good transfers of Pathé discs, most notably things that Ward Marston has done. Like his Claudia Muzio (Pathé) set for Romophone, or the Pathé opera series, for his own label, Marston.

[transformingArt]

There are good transfers of Pathé discs, most notably things that Ward Marston has done. Like his Claudia Muzio (Pathé) set for Romophone, or the Pathé opera series, for his own label, Marston.

I have heard all of those done by Marston - he did best as usual, and those transfers are certainly good indeed compared with what they actually sounded. I have had a chance to hear Claudia Muzio / Felia Litvinne Pathé records (one each), and they sounded really, really horrible - a tinny, nasal sound emerges from severe surface noises.

Even they sounded pretty decent, they are still a second generation copies, and you can still hear some faint "inner noises" on them. I have never heard any transfers made from the original Pathé masters - especially compared with Marston's works on Edison recordings which are really fantastic.

[Wolfe]

I'm not aware of any modern transfers taken direct from the cylinder masters either.

Hard to believe there aren't some of them in existence.

Though I don't know for certain, it wouldn't be too far off base to also consider the possible effects of war. Like with the Bettini cylinders that were lost to bombing during WWII.

Or maybe, like a lot of things, they were deemed of no further use, and thrown out.

[Phototone]

Since they were so big, and high-speed, they would have the "potential" to produce possibly the best sound recording of their period, if they were around for transfer today.

[Tinkerbell]

I'm totally off-topic here... and I'm sorry Transforming Art, I don't mean to hijack your thread.

I was just wondering if there is anyone else who is old enough that when they hear the words master cylinder, they can't help think of the evil robot from the cartoon Felix the Cat?

Okay, I'm finished with my diversion now. Ahem, "We now return you to your regular programming..."

[hillndalefan]

As to the problems of transferring Pathé recordings, I once broadcast an hour of Cliff Edwards Actuelles/Perfects which were also cylinder dubs. I had so much rumble and extraneous noise, that I found I had to go back and dub them with a microphone in my Victrola 300 horn in order to reduce the low end for that purpose. When they were reproduced electrically, all the defects were too enhanced for broadcast. The rumble often exceeded the level of the recorded sound. Bob Ault

[transformingArt]

Tinkerbell/

Wolfe/

I also heard from a collector friend of mine who has a 1942 release of Sarah Bernhardt Pathé - it was not a electrical transcription, according to what he said. So it means that they (at least some of them) were still around until 1940s, even during the war. Anyway, it is really unbelievable that there are very few informations about them.

[Calle]

Well...

http://www.youtube.com/user/phonogaleri ... 3mhmjNS5o4

[Phototone]

Well...

http://www.youtube.com/user/phonogaleri ... 3mhmjNS5o4

The master-cylinders were actually even bigger than the ones shown in the video.