HMV202 for auction in Scarborough.

[Watanabehi]

Hi NEKTREG,

You mentioned that you already own Electrola 203. Is it HMV203 with an electric motor? I appreciate if you can clarify it. Thanks.

Hideki

[Inigo]

Hideki, that U-trap at the tonearm base which you mentioned... What's it like? Any chance that you had a photo of it? I'm curious about that... The 194 has anything of that sort... The tonearm base enters directly into the horn throat.

[NEKTREG]

Hi NEKTREG,

You mentioned that you already own Electrola 203. Is it HMV203 with an electric motor? I appreciate if you can clarify it. Thanks.

Hideki

Hello Hideki.
„Electrola“ was the HMV brand for Germany, after they lost the trademark with Nipper and „His Masters Voice“ to the german Polyphon in the 1. World War.
They had nothing in common with the Victor-Electrola or electric motors - just the same machine as the HMV with a different decal and sold exclusively in Germany.
Off course they are much rarer than any HMV or foreign brand, because of the great depression in Germany and the heavy air raids by the RAF, which destroyed nearly every bigger city. My one came from Freiburg i.B in southern Germany, which wasn‘t bombed as frequently as the North. It was always in the same mansion and family since 1928.

Victor (Electrola) never produced anything which was capable to reproduce a sound like a HMV 193/194 or 202/203.

[Steve]

Hi NEKTREG,

You mentioned that you already own Electrola 203. Is it HMV203 with an electric motor? I appreciate if you can clarify it. Thanks.

Hideki

Hello Hideki.
„Electrola“ was the HMV brand for Germany, after they lost the trademark with Nipper and „His Masters Voice“ to the german Polyphon in the 1. World War.
They had nothing in common with the Victor-Electrola or electric motors - just the same machine as the HMV with a different decal and sold exclusively in Germany.
Off course they are much rarer than any HMV or foreign brand, because of the great depression in Germany and the heavy air raids by the RAF, which destroyed nearly every bigger city. My one came from Freiburg i.B in southern Germany, which wasn‘t bombed as frequently as the North. It was always in the same mansion and family since 1928.

Victor (Electrola) never produced anything which was capable to reproduce a sound like a HMV 193/194 or 202/203.

Fantastic machine and incredibly rare! As you say Victor never had a 193/4 equivalent, let alone 202/3 equivalent. There was a very good reason the Japanese and Korean Market for these machines was so strong 30 years ago; those guys did their research owned a bit of everything gramophone related and came to the same conclusion that the 202 and 203 marked the absolute apogee of acoustic sound from an internal horn. It's a little surprising it took them a bit longer to seriously latch on to EMG's and Expert machines, the best of which in terms of sound quality, surpass even the biggest HMV re-entrants.

[Watanabehi]

Hideki, that U-trap at the tonearm base which you mentioned... What's it like? Any chance that you had a photo of it? I'm curious about that... The 194 has anything of that sort... The tonearm base enters directly into the horn throat.

Here is the photo of the U shape trap throat.

Hideki

[Watanabehi]

Hi NEKTREG,

You mentioned that you already own Electrola 203. Is it HMV203 with an electric motor? I appreciate if you can clarify it. Thanks.

Hideki

Hello Hideki.
„Electrola“ was the HMV brand for Germany, after they lost the trademark with Nipper and „His Masters Voice“ to the german Polyphon in the 1. World War.
They had nothing in common with the Victor-Electrola or electric motors - just the same machine as the HMV with a different decal and sold exclusively in Germany.
Off course they are much rarer than any HMV or foreign brand, because of the great depression in Germany and the heavy air raids by the RAF, which destroyed nearly every bigger city. My one came from Freiburg i.B in southern Germany, which wasn‘t bombed as frequently as the North. It was always in the same mansion and family since 1928.

Victor (Electrola) never produced anything which was capable to reproduce a sound like a HMV 193/194 or 202/203.

Have you heard the sound of any two-door orthophonic Credenza, which is an early model of Credenza? When it is in perfect condition, it produces amazing sound. I have HMV 202 Gramophone and two-door Credenza (#1260) with its original brass orthophonic reproducer. It can easily compete with any HMV re-entrant models.

Hideki

[Inigo]

I see... Thanks for the photo of the U detour. Certainly, that U would kill the sounds with wavelength similar to the dimension of the conduit at the U curve. If this size is kind of 7cm this is the length of 4857Hz, if 8cm, it's 4250Hz... For killing 8000Hz it would need to be 4.25cm size.
The 194 horn goes straight up into the tonearm base, and has not this detour.

[Steve]

I see... Thanks for the photo of the U detour. Certainly, that U would kill the sounds with wavelength similar to the dimension of the conduit at the U curve. If this size is kind of 7cm this is the length of 4857Hz, if 8cm, it's 4250Hz... For killing 8000Hz it would need to be 4.25cm size.
The 194 horn goes straight up into the tonearm base, and has not this detour.

The "improved" 194 of 1929 also has the u tube. It appears they added this piece to the larger models (not sure about the 163) around the same time they added the twin lid stays and dropped the no. 34 motor in lieu of the newly developed no. 52 oil bath type.

[Steve]

I see... Thanks for the photo of the U detour. Certainly, that U would kill the sounds with wavelength similar to the dimension of the conduit at the U curve. If this size is kind of 7cm this is the length of 4857Hz, if 8cm, it's 4250Hz... For killing 8000Hz it would need to be 4.25cm size.
The 194 horn goes straight up into the tonearm base, and has not this detour.

The "improved" 194 of 1929 also has the u tube. It appears they added this piece to the larger models (not sure about the 163) around the same time they added the twin lid stays and dropped the no. 34 motor in lieu of the newly developed no. 52 oil bath type.

In essence the late 193/4 and 202/3 represent the very best versions of these machines, which is sometimes reflected in the price they achieve.

[Inigo]

Thanks.
My 194 must be pretty early. It is a Spanish model from Barcelona factory. In the motor board edge and inside the cabinet it has engraved what seems an assembly number, and it happen to be only no. 2. So it must be of 1927. 5A reproducer, single lid stay and no34 motor, no U tube in the horn. It sounds pretty good. No ivorine plate nor serial number except for that '2'. In the cabinet it is engraved on a metal plate attached to the left side of the horn compartment, under the motor board.
Dunno what part of the processes were done at Barcelona, if they imported complete machines from UK and only added the Spanish decals, or they were imported ready to use, or in the contrary they assembled all them locally. Who knows...