Victrola Pooley VTLA Database

[Django]

I apologize in advance for my obsession with these machines. If anyone is interested, it might be nice to put together a database along with a picture of the actual machine so that we can track the changes that occurred to this historic machine and their corresponding serial numbers. Any anomalies would be nice to document as well:

Example:
Serial Number:
Motor: Early bevel gear/Later worm drive
Horn: Small cast ring, wooden horn/Large casting, wooden bell
Hidden Needle Drawer:
Lid Support: Knee/Saw tooth
Drawer: Tall, with pull/Short without pull

Mine:
Serial Number: 844
Motor: Early, Bevel Gears
Horn: Small cast ring, wooden horn
Hidden Needle Drawer: No
Lid Support: Knee
Drawer: Tall, with pull

Mine has something written on the back of the lid, but I can’t figure it out, otherwise, I don’t think thatn my example has any anomalies.

[1913Concert]

Serial Number: 1864
Motor: Worm Gear, slotted crank, crank hole in the middle of side as in later VTLA's
Lid Support: Sawtooth
Drawer: No pull, has cut out as on later VTLA's
Lid Hinge: Piano hinge
No Needle drawer, has later style needle cup arrangement blocked out a bit from the side


Interestingly, the motor board has the large cut out and drilled holes for a bevel-style motor but there is no sign that a bevel motor was ever mounted, ie holes show no impression of screws. No sign of a crank hole further forward.

[Django]

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Serial Number: 1864
Motor: Worm Gear, slotted crank, crank hole in the middle of side as in later VTLA's
Lid Support: Sawtooth
Drawer: No pull, has cut out as on later VTLA's
Lid Hinge: Piano hinge
No Needle drawer, has later style needle cup arrangement blocked out a bit from the side


Interestingly, the motor board has the large cut out and drilled holes for a bevel-style motor but there is no sign that a bevel motor was ever mounted, ie holes show no impression of screws. No sign of a crank hole further forward.

Thank you for contributing adding your beautiful example. It’s nice to see another New Hampshire Pooley. I know that there is at least one other. If you ever find yourself around Claremont I hope that you will stop by. It’s always nice to share.

[Jerry B.]

Here's the Pooley in my care:

Serial #1414
Motor - Second style motor
Lid support - Sawtooth
Drawer - Has pull out parts drawer
Lid hinge - Piano

Jerry B.

[streetmechanic14]

Serial number: 894
Motor: bevel gear
Horn: small cast ring- wooden horn
Hidden needle drawer: No
Lid support: knee
Drawer: tall, with pull
Your project may turn up some answers to questions I've had for years concerning these machines- for instance, why do so many surviving examples have serial numbers in the 800's?- or have I just seen too few machines to draw any conclusions? How could Victor (or Pooley) have made more than a thousand machines and not come up with something more workmanlike than simply plopping the top motor board of an outside-horn machine into an cabinet opening that doesn't really accommodate it? The fancy ogee-molded edges of the board insure that it will never sit securely in the cabinet as the spring is wound (note the scuff marks in my machine).
Any chance the printed label you're having trouble reading might be a "Second Hand Machine Notice" like the one on my machine? That label seems pretty fishy to me- it's dated 1907; how many Victor dealers were accepting a Victrola only months-old as a trade-in? How many of those dealers were shipping their machines accepted as trade-ins back to Camden (and having Victor accept them)? My guess is that Victor had a warehouse full of these unsold flat-top machines in 1907 as the more attractive curved-lid models were being supplied to dealers. Victor was maniacal about forbidding discounts and price-cutting- branding the flat-tops "second hand" allowed them to violate their own policies.
Just my guess.
Don't let all this kvetching suggest I'm not proud to own this machine. It may not have meant much to Victor in 1906 but in retrospect it now seems possibly the most significant phonograph Victor ever made. Would Victor have become the colossus it would be after 1910 without it?
And now I won't consider my VTLA complete until I find one of those Nipper compartment lights!
-Dave

[Django]

Serial number: 894
Motor: bevel gear
Horn: small cast ring- wooden horn
Hidden needle drawer: No
Lid support: knee
Drawer: tall, with pull
Your project may turn up some answers to questions I've had for years concerning these machines- for instance, why do so many surviving examples have serial numbers in the 800's?- or have I just seen too few machines to draw any conclusions? How could Victor (or Pooley) have made more than a thousand machines and not come up with something more workmanlike than simply plopping the top motor board of an outside-horn machine into an cabinet opening that doesn't really accommodate it? The fancy ogee-molded edges of the board insure that it will never sit securely in the cabinet as the spring is wound (note the scuff marks in my machine).
Any chance the printed label you're having trouble reading might be a "Second Hand Machine Notice" like the one on my machine? That label seems pretty fishy to me- it's dated 1907; how many Victor dealers were accepting a Victrola only months-old as a trade-in? How many of those dealers were shipping their machines accepted as trade-ins back to Camden (and having Victor accept them)? My guess is that Victor had a warehouse full of these unsold flat-top machines in 1907 as the more attractive curved-lid models were being supplied to dealers. Victor was maniacal about forbidding discounts and price-cutting- branding the flat-tops "second hand" allowed them to violate their own policies.
Just my guess.
Don't let all this kvetching suggest I'm not proud to own this machine. It may not have meant much to Victor in 1906 but in retrospect it now seems possibly the most significant phonograph Victor ever made. Would Victor have become the colossus it would be after 1910 without it?
And now I won't consider my VTLA complete until I find one of those Nipper compartment lights!
-Dave

Thanks for adding your machine. I visited one today that is two machines sequentially from yours. Mine is fifty.

Yours seems to have some extra bracing inside, (shipping materials?).

The second hand label is interesting. Mine does not have one. Attempting to control pricing and market share is still happening.

A fairly new machine being sold as used doesn’t seem suspicious to me. It may have been repossessed or the owner may have had a change of heart or financial difficulties. The first batch from Pooley, (approximately 500 machines), led to more than 1,000 more cabinets being ordered from Pooley, so it seems unlikely that the machines were being discounted and sold as second hand.

The writing on mine was not a label. It was just some letters or symbols, (see below). They are probably irrelevant.

[Jerry B.]

And now I won't consider my VTLA complete until I find one of those Nipper compartment lights!
-Dave

I bought that at the APS California Expo a few months ago. I was surprised to see it rather late on the first day of the expo and the price was very reasonable. It's one of those items that is a play on Nipper without stepping on Victor's toes. I thought it interesting that the electrical connection is through an empty light bulb socket. It suggests the only electric source was a bulb hanging in the middle of the room.

Jerry B.

[pallophotophone]

A very long time ago I used to live in a home that had one of those screw based Edison sockets that was located on the base board, down near the floor. Not knowing what it was at the time, my poor fingers told me that it was still active and what it was .

[Jacobean]

The Victor Survival database now has a total of 210,000 entries (models, finishes and serial numbers of existent Victor and Victrola machines) that has been ongoing since the mid-1970's, and continues to receive about 30 submissions daily from my website and from visits to shows, auctions, etc. As of now, there are just over 150 Pooley survivors logged. The database does not yet have a public query access, but message me for more information. Details may be limited on some entries, but a lot of data is there.

Glad to share query results with anyone.

Paul Edie
www.victor-victrola.com

[Henry]

A very long time ago I used to live in a home that had one of those screw based Edison sockets that was located on the base board, down near the floor. Not knowing what it was at the time, my poor fingers told me that it was still active and what it was .

My grandparents lived in a c. 1920s house in Augusta, GA that had those Edison-base receptacles. I still (after 75+ years) have the scar on my left index fingertip that resulted from childhood curiosity!