Please, help to identify this early La voix de son maître gramophone

[Steve]

Something else that's just occurred to me looking at the photos, I believe the horn is indeed a replacement MG anyway as it appears to be the smaller type with 9 panels. I'd expect to see the large MG horn on a No. 7.

[gramophoneshane]

I suppose there's always the possibility that along with the smaller motor, this "special"(?) 7 also received the smaller horn for export to France.

[Steve]

Or (clutching at straws), that the "S" means Small.....motor and horn?

[drh]

One thing strikes me as odd: the motorboard is very flat and plain and unadorned outside, but inside the box, which otherwise is pretty unfinished and where it would never be seen, it has that nicely finished inset panel/beadwork look. Is that typical for European machines of its sort? Or might someone have flipped it over at some point?

[gramophoneshane]

Yes that's normal.
I believe they were constructed that way to prevent the motor board from warping.

[phonodesbois]

The transfer is certainly an old one but I don't know if it's a factory one. I think we saw the same one on another gramophone but I didn't find a pic.

Although the label is hardly readable, given that the cabinet is in oak with a mahogany finish, it should be HFOS. By the way what the H and F mean? (I'm sure it's not high fidelity!....)

Steve, we put a different horn and it does look better. (again what means MG?)

We assume that the “gold” finish on the arm is not original as it rather looks as a varnish in poor condition; so should it be nickeled?

Thanks again for your help

[Steve]

The transfer is certainly an old one but I don't know if it's a factory one. I think we saw the same one on another gramophone but I didn't find a pic.
DSCN3709.JPG
Although the label is hardly readable, given that the cabinet is in oak with a mahogany finish, it should be HFOS. By the way what the H and F mean? (I'm sure it's not high fidelity!....)

Steve, we put a different horn and it does look better. (again what means MG?)

We assume that the “gold” finish on the arm is not original as it rather looks as a varnish in poor condition; so should it be nickeled?

Thanks again for your help

The cabinet is not a mahogany finish. It's an oak cabinet with a pigmented varnish applied to it which can go a slight reddish colour with age. The original catalogues claimed these were "waxed oak", but they were anything but.

The gold arm could be either very tarnished nickel which will polish back to bright silver or it could be very worn nickel which has left the brass base metal showing through. Photographs are unreliable to determine this unfortunately but with a bit of experience you should be able to decipher which it is with the machine in front of you.

The transfer is the original factory applied one.

MG is lazy Internet speak for Morning Glory horn. Sorry, I've fallen into that trap of using abbreviations when I casually assume everyone must understand what I'm referring to!

HMV used a peculiar numbering system for their machines which gets further confusing with their use of letters for the same model. The "H" refers to it being an external horn model. The "O" refers to the oak cabinet. The "F" refers to the model denomination, in this case what was described as a "Model 7" in UK catalogues but what might have also had a different number in France.

Hope this helps (HTH)

Steve

[Inigo]

My French HMV Style III has the same decal:

16707701751873065851591961720054.jpg

1670770210875827712041298294652.jpg

16707702350111929514186653412810.jpg

This has also a dealer plaque from Eugene Hermann, from Metz. It came with a record with a sticker from the same dealer, and even I got an old photo of that store from the web.

[phonodesbois]

Steve: TSM for your help!
I'm really getting old and I should have understood what MG means
Last (who knows...) question: What is the best book to identify HMV machines?

Inigo: your French HMV Style III looks quite similat to the VV IV

Thanks again,
Jeff

[Steve]

Steve: TSM for your help!
I'm really getting old and I should have understood what MG means
Last (who knows...) question: What is the best book to identify HMV machines?

Inigo: your French HMV Style III looks quite similat to the VV IV

Thanks again,
Jeff

There are sadly no books on European HMV machines or products to date but for UK models at the cheaper end of the book price scale there is "Book Of The Gramophone" by Barry Williamson which is a useful reference tool although the print quality is poor. At the more luxury coffee table book end of the market, there is "His Master's Gramophone" which is in hardback and colour (but almost exclusively deals with British Market). I have a feeling both are now out of print so it'll be a question of scouting around for used copies online.