Sound Comparison Between Brunswick Cortez and HMV 163

[poodling around]

If you bake the bamboo needles or use the susudake bamboo, they will be less effected by moisture in the atmosphere. It is well known that heat treating wood will reduce its ability to absorb moisture from the atmosphere.

My experience is that a record that will eat a bamboo needle up will also eat up a thorn or BCN. Some records you can get multiple platings from either one, some they are toast before a minute of music is played.

For me, whether to use fibre of any type or steel depends to some extent on the record. Some records benefit from the highs being tamed by the thorn. Some records sound much better with steel needles.

Interesting. Thank you anchorman.

I have also had success with pre-baked bamboo cocktail sticks (really) - but I don't expect anyone to believe me lol !

[Henry]

If you bake the bamboo needles or use the susudake bamboo, they will be less effected by moisture in the atmosphere. It is well known that heat treating wood will reduce its ability to absorb moisture from the atmosphere.

My experience is that a record that will eat a bamboo needle up will also eat up a thorn or BCN. Some records you can get multiple platings from either one, some they are toast before a minute of music is played.

For me, whether to use fibre of any type or steel depends to some extent on the record. Some records benefit from the highs being tamed by the thorn. Some records sound much better with steel needles.

Interesting. Thank you anchorman.

I have also had success with pre-baked bamboo cocktail sticks (really) - but I don't expect anyone to believe me lol !

Inserting the sticks in olives, then soaking them in a solution of gin:vermouth (10:1) and ingesting the results (minus the sticks) , will do wonders to improve the sonic experience.

[Inigo]

I've found the L&H cutters to be far better than the HMVs... but HMVs can be used directly on the soundbox without removing the needle, which is a commodity... L&H give a more acute point, though, and the resulting sound is softer. Also using longer bamboo needles improves the overall performance, with a softer and lower volume, but the points last longer.

[Watanabehi]

I've found the L&H cutters to be far better than the HMVs... but HMVs can be used directly on the soundbox without removing the needle, which is a commodity... L&H give a more acute point, though, and the resulting sound is softer. Also using longer bamboo needles improves the overall performance, with a softer and lower volume, but the points last longer.

I used to use a L&H cutter, but now I usually use Davey EMG cutters which I think best cutters I have ever used.

Hideki

[anchorman]

If you bake the bamboo needles or use the susudake bamboo, they will be less effected by moisture in the atmosphere. It is well known that heat treating wood will reduce its ability to absorb moisture from the atmosphere.

My experience is that a record that will eat a bamboo needle up will also eat up a thorn or BCN. Some records you can get multiple platings from either one, some they are toast before a minute of music is played.

For me, whether to use fibre of any type or steel depends to some extent on the record. Some records benefit from the highs being tamed by the thorn. Some records sound much better with steel needles.

Interesting. Thank you anchorman.

I have also had success with pre-baked bamboo cocktail sticks (really) - but I don't expect anyone to believe me lol !

I believe. I tried a few using part of the bamboo that wasn't on the outside edge with the "skin", and they worked as well as the others, so far as I could tell.

[anchorman]

I find the HMV a little harsh in the upper frequency range, and this tracks with my experience swapping soundboxes on my HMV 102 portable. The 5B soundbox has more high frequency sound, as I have seen confirmed on a spectrum analysis, but I think the higher frequency tones have more distortion than does the Columbia number 9 soundbox. So you get some extra range, in the HMV 5B, but to my ears it doesn't often sound as good. I will measure again at some point to confirm.

It's too bad the brunswick doesn't have a longer horn! the soundbox sounds very capable, and it would be nice to get the bass notes to come out as good as they do on the HMV 163.

[Inigo]

I believe. I tried a few using part of the bamboo that wasn't on the outside edge with the "skin", and they worked as well as the others, so far as I could tell.

I've also tried these, and since then, I never trash those inner bamboo needles without skin. In fact I use them and agree with you, they can be as good as the others. usually I get several sides without repointing, when playing classical 78s of the twenties, which are not strident as the jazz or dance band. It's the way they're recorded, using ambient mics etc, what makes the difference. Dance records are usually 'forced' to sound very loud, and break the points of bamboos faster. Good long inner bamboo needles are very good for playing classical music.

[Watanabehi]

Personally, I use loud tone steel needles almost exclusively.
I've never enjoyed the muted tones and volume of bamboo or cactus.
I just love the full clear loud volume you get from steel, almost as if the band is in the room with you. And judging by the popularity of loud tone steel being used for over 120 yrs, I guess a lot of people must have preferred them too.
Each to their own I suppose.

Real good machines should be able to reproduce very good sound even when they use high quality bamboo needles. Record cutting needles have a triangular jewel point, which is exactly the same shape as the tip of the bamboo needle, which means the tip fits in the record groove perfectly. I know using loud tone steel needles produce really loud tone, but its tip is just a round tip, which won't fit into the groove perfectly. If your machine produces mute tones with high quality bamboo needles, it needs to be adjusted on its pars like horn, tone arm and reproducer.

Hideki

[Watanabehi]

I don't have a YouTube channel but the sound of the Chromogram, which I still own, was transformed when I replaced the original soundbox with a rebuilt Meltrope II. It is bright and forward, but with none of the harshness I have heard on some HMV163's.

I have a question about the needle you use. Is it steel needles or bamboo (fiber) needles? If it is bamboo needles, your machine sounds good, then is a great machine, but if they are steel needles, I doubt that your machine is a real good one. Please demonstrate it to us how your machine performs. Thanks.

Hideki

I have always been sceptical about the claims made for bamboo needles and the mumbo jumbo which surrounds them.
When I use fibre needles I prefer thorns, my favourites being the black IM variety.
When demonstrating a machine there is nothing more disappointing than a bamboo needle breaking down during a record.
For everyday playing I use soft or extra soft tone steel needles, which with good well adjusted soundboxes are quite loud enough for indoor use. I only use loud tone for playing portables outdoors.
I have records from my father's (1914-2010) and grandfather's (1885-1963) collections which have always been carefully played with steel needles and show no visible or audible signs of wear.

I make my own susudake bamboo needles, which are high quality. They play any NM records perfectly without breaking down. Please try my hand-made susudake needles, which are available on ebay. I have sold many all over the world.

Hideki

[Watanabehi]

Sometimes steel vs bamboo comes down to the quality of the records. While at a friend’s today, we found a 12” of a rabbi singing in either Hebrew or Yiddish, I wasn’t really sure which, and didn’t read the label carefully. It sounded absolutely horrible with a fibre needle, as the worn record ruined the tip quickly. Played with a steel needle it sounded very sweet indeed, even with the limited horn on his pre-orthophonic Victor victrola. I don’t have a lot of love for the older cabinet machines, but with the right records they can be very pleasant.

I am looking forward to listening to these videos tomorrow when I am able to use better speakers than my phone has.

Worn records should not be played with bamboo needles. Those worn-out records can be played only with steel needles unfortunately and sadly. Only near mint or mint or very good-condition records should be played with bamboo needles.

Hideki