Need help identifying this machine!

[Jerry B.]

I bought this a few days ago and really have no clue what I purchased. Can you help? Any comments would be appreciated. Please read the file comments by each photo. The object is mostly steel and brass. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Jerry B.

[Lucius1958]

The lever linking the carriage and speed control sounds like some attempt at a constant linear speed recording, maybe... but the counterclockwise turntable is a mystery.

- Bill

[cleveland1996]

Could it be a foreign copy of a Devenau Biophone?

[Ben the phono man]

It looks like some sort of weird columbia creation. maybe a cylinder phonograph converted to play discs?

[TinfoilPhono]

Could this be an Idéal Mixte? https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7y36a

[gramophoneshane]

There certainly appears to be similarities.
The turntable's backwards rotation just doesn't make sense though, unless something is missing or the rotation is somehow switchable?
Regardless of what it is, it's definitely fascinating and I'm glad that it's now in good hands.
Congratulations on such an unusual find Jerry.

[MarkELynch]

Happy New Year Jerry!

Thanks for posting photos of your significant discovery. I look forward to reading the source documents and our opinions as we find out more about this machine.

My first thought is that the feedscrew you describe was an attempt to drive the reproducer across the face of the disc record. If so, this would have been an attempt to circumvent the Berliner patent 534,543 which, as we know, describes the reproducer being driven across the record by the record groove itself.

Sonora had a similar design using a driven reproducer arm as litigated in this patent suit (which they lost)

https://cite.case.law/f/183/849/

Jerry, can you tell us if the dimensions of hardware and components follow US standards? This might give us a clue when searching for patent information, for example.

I look forward to the developing story!

Mark

[Hoodoo]

Very interesting find. Does it look as though there is a mounting point for a missing cylinder mandrel ?
It really looks like a relative of the Idéal Mixte machine in the video link posted above.

[JerryVan]

Interesting!

- Is the diameter of the turntable spindle such that a regular 78 rpm record would fit?
- Do I see a drive pin just adjacent to the turntable spindle? The presence of this might suggest the need for a special record, suited only to this machine. (Such a record may be intended to rotate CCW?)
- The turntable would only rotate CCW if the current drive belt is placed in the originally intended manner. The question in my mind is, is this the remnants of the original belt and is it installed as originally intended? A twist in the belt from the drive to the driven pullies would result in CW rotation.
- Is the linkage from the carriage to the governor meant to gradually increase/decrease rpm's as the carriage traverses? Or, is this meant to automatically release the brake when the carriage is advanced to the "start" position of the record?
- When the motor runs and the carriage is engaged with the feedscrew, does the carriage advance from left to right, or from right to left?
- The wear indications on the carriage slide suggest some degree of use. Do you see other signs of use/wear on gears, etc.? (Wondering if this was ever a complete machine that was actually ever in use, or an experimental project.)

My guess is that this was an experimental piece. It's construction does not appear to suggest a mass produced example, but instead a "one-off" example.

What are these details about???

mystery mach2.png (285.13 KiB) Viewed 782 times

[gramophoneshane]

- The turntable would only rotate CCW if the current drive belt is placed in the originally intended manner. The question in my mind is, is this the remnants of the original belt and is it installed as orginally intended? A twist in the belt from the drive to the driven pullies would result in CW rotation.

That's an excellent point.
The first time I set up my puck the mandrel rotated backwards so I realised the string belt should have been figure 8.
I may well be a similar belt problem that's just as easy to fix so the turntable rotates clockwise.