HMV 102, the complete color range, the treasure trove !

[nostalgia]

This collection is up for sale in my area, ot at least in my country, even if it roughly 500 km away from my hometown.
I have to share the photos for the sheer beauty of watching the collection. How would you value this collection,...Oedipus...Roger...everyone?
I made a bid, but have been overbid already , it is auctioned and price right now is already close to €1000...
I have them all, apart from the grey and brown,,,,as we know were discontinued in 1934.
Do we know the production volume of the grey and brown 102, at all?

[Sherazhyder]

Beautiful collection! UK pound 1000 for six units in apparently immaculate state is not a real big price. I do not understand why none of the big brands have revived the production of gramophones when there is a strong demand for these machines in the market. Probably this is the reason that cheap and substandard replicas are being sold as originals. These machines have a utilitarian and aesthetic function. These machines define a lifestyle and a value system. Now when organic, environment friendly and durables are thr buzzwords, I feel there will be a comeback moment for these machines in near future.

[Steve]

It's not a complete collection; I don't see the deluxe red leather 102 there? That alone is the one to go for. The others were made in very high numbers. Yes, the grey and brown were also short lived but they are not overly special and still only have chrome fittings. The red rexine, green and blue are still very commonly seen today, just check Ebay. With that said 1000 is not a lot for 6 102s in very clean condition.

I've had two brown 102s and currently own a grey one. The only absolute keeper in 102s for me though is the red leather and gold plated version.

According to HMG there are no sales figures for either grey or brown 102s.

[Steve]

Beautiful collection! UK pound 1000 for six units in apparently immaculate state is not a real big price. I do not understand why none of the big brands have revived the production of gramophones when there is a strong demand for these machines in the market. Probably this is the reason that cheap and substandard replicas are being sold as originals. These machines have a utilitarian and aesthetic function. These machines define a lifestyle and a value system. Now when organic, environment friendly and durables are thr buzzwords, I feel there will be a comeback moment for these machines in near future.

What big brands? To my knowledge none of the major players exist today and even if they did, the market for gramophones is miniscule and certainly not commercially viable.

[Watanabehi]

This collection is up for sale in my area, ot at least in my country, even if it roughly 500 km away from my hometown.
I have to share the photos for the sheer beauty of watching the collection. How would you value this collection,...Oedipus...Roger...everyone?
I made a bid, but have been overbid already , it is auctioned and price right now is already close to €1000...
I have them all, apart from the grey and brown,,,,as we know were discontinued in 1934.
Do we know the production volume of the grey and brown 102, at all?

Very colorful nice collection!! I only have two hmv 102 and Electrola 106 portables. I think for me they are more than enough.

[epigramophone]

I have all the six pictured, plus the red leather, the tropical teak, the French "Voix de son Maitre" in blue, the Columbia 9000 also in blue and the Columbia 206. Both Columbias are 102 clones, so in my view a 102 collection is incomplete without them.
I also have the Russian copy of the 102.
I am still looking for the German Electrola, the Italian "La Voce del Padrone" and the Spanish "Voz de Su Amo". There has been an Electrola 102 on eBay for several weeks, missing it's winding handle and record tray, which is grossly overpriced and therefore not selling. Does anyone know whether the Italian and Spanish versions ever existed, or am I wasting my time looking for them?

Although we have all seen from Martin's posts that gramophone prices are attractively cheap in Norway, I would expect a collection of six 102's in such good condition to attract interest from the UK and beyond. I would not attempt to speculate on their selling price.

[nostalgia]

This is to my eyes a one of a kind collection, and yes Steve, I know the red leather edition is not here, but without knowing the production number of that edition ( I don't know if anyone knows it?), I regard that edition so ultra rare, that I skipped it when writing "the complete color range". It is a machine, that most of us never will own, as I see it. I would believe, also in the UK, only a very small percentage of old time/serious HMV collectors have this machine in their collection. I talked to the oldest Norwegian collector I know here yesterday, he has never seen the red leather 102 in Norway, and he has been collecting for more than 50 years. Maybe it never has been imported here, or maybe a unit or two is still hiding somewhere, it is impossible to know, really.

I also have read the HMG book, and understood from it we don't know the production numbers of the grey and brown model, but was curious to know if some more information has come into light about that since the HMG book was written. I have read and re read the HMG book, and to me it appears that the producition numbers for the blue, red and green model are roughly 10% each of the black model, if I understand it correctly.

We often see the blue, red and green model on Ebay, but we also know they are rarely found in this pristine condition. I have them all at home here too, and they are not too bad looking, but not as good looking as the machines here sold. I also have a green and black Columbia 9000, as well as the Columbia 206, so I must really think hard to defend my bidding on this range of 102's, but I also know they will never appear again. My only way to defend bidding, would be to sell something, and what easily comes to mind,...is the German DGAG "Intermediate Monarch", that was shown in a thread here yesterday. It may cover a big part of a possible purchase of this line of 102s.

Let us put my question in another way...if you did not own the grey and brown 102, what would you be willing to pay for any of them in the condition shown on the photo here?

And you are absolutely right Roger, the sale has attracted attracion from abroad, and I also know from who, but I feel it would be wrong to reveal it here for everyones eyes to see.

PS. Whatever happens with this collection of 102s, I have already secured getting two of the earliest HMV winding keys, the three part slotted winders, that was auctioned separately from the same seller. I was missing two of these and they are not easy to find, and it also means my double spring DGAG horn machine purchased back in February, that had no original winder, now will get it.

[Steve]

This is to my eyes a one of a kind collection, and yes Steve, I know the red leather edition is not here, but without knowing the production number of that edition ( I don't know if anyone knows it?), I regard that edition so ultra rare, that I skipped it when writing "the complete color range". It is a machine, that most of us never will own, as I see it. I would believe, also in the UK, only a very small percentage of old time/serious HMV collectors have this machine in their collection. I talked to the oldest Norwegian collector I know here yesterday, he has never seen the red leather 102 in Norway, and he has been collecting for more than 50 years. Maybe it never has been imported here, or maybe a unit or two is still hiding somewhere, it is impossible to know, really.

I also have read the HMG book, and understood from it we don't know the production numbers of the grey and brown model, but was curious to know if some more information has come into light about that since the HMG book was written. I have read and re read the HMG book, and to me it appears that the producition numbers for the blue, red and green model are roughly 10% each of the black model, if I understand it correctly.

We often see the blue, red and green model on Ebay, but we also know they are rarely found in this pristine condition. I have them all at home here too, and they are not too bad looking, but not as good looking as the machines here sold. I also have a green and black Columbia 9000, as well as the Columbia 206, so I must really think hard to defend my bidding on this range of 102's, but I also know they will never appear again. My only way to defend bidding, would be to sell something, and what easily comes to mind,...is the German DGAG "Intermediate Monarch", that was shown in a thread here yesterday. It may cover a big part of a possible purchase of this line of 102s.

Let us put my question in another way...if you did not own the grey and brown 102, what would you be willing to pay for any of them in the condition shown on the photo here?

And you are absolutely right Roger, the sale has attracted attracion from abroad, and I also know from who, but I feel it would be wrong to reveal it here for everyones eyes to see.

PS. Whatever happens with this collection of 102s, I have already secured getting two of the earliest HMV winding keys, the three part slotted winders, that was auctioned separately from the same seller. I was missing two of these and they are not easy to find, and it also means my double spring DGAG horn machine purchased back in February, that had no original winder, now will get it.

At the end of the day we're all different and as collectors even more so in the way we collect and judge these items of obsolete technology. After all they have been obsolete for well over half a century, let's face it. But I will try to answer your questions objectively!

Or to be subjective for a moment let me show my hand where this specific topic is concerned. I own the following in 102s:

First model with no. 5 brake in black
102A in grey and deluxe in red leather / gilt fittings
102D (not Ministry of Supplies)
Columbia 206
Columbia 9000 prototype?
Columbia 9000A (similar but superior to 102E / 102H)

I've owned but sold green, blue and brown 102s. I own a teak and ebonised cabinet 114 based on 102. I owned an immaculate red Russian copy of a 102 but sold it due to the poor sound reproduction.

The 102 is a fine successor to the 101 but it is not made as well, typical of everything from the EMI period and it is vastly overrated as a musical reproducer. There are better portables out there.

Would I sell a German approximation of an Intermediate Monarch to pay for some 102s? Probably not. The early horn machine is far more interesting to me and much less commonly seen. It is far more desirable and collectible. Blue, green and red 102s are plentiful, even in great condition. Just don't look on Ebay as most are overpriced and second rate condition.

That leaves the "exclusive" aspect of this haul being the brown and grey 102s. In my experience the grey is the least common of the two, hence why I've kept mine. The red leather is the best one by far though. I don't think a brown 102 is worth more than £350 and possibly the same for the grey. The others are £250 items in my book.

I'm not sure where this sale is taking place? Is it online or advertised anywhere? Its not on Ebay or The Saleroom as far as I know.

[Marco Gilardetti]

we also know they are rarely found in this pristine condition.

Ditto, and these all come complete of the respective "record tray", each of its appropriate colour.

[nostalgia]

Thank you, Steve, for expresssing your view about the different aspects of valuing the 102. I agree that 102 is not as well made as the 101, but they are difficult to compare, since I admittedly love the panel in the lid range of the 102, and of course,,the 5A/5B sound box. I guess one can always discuss what portables are better than the 102, without saying it directly,,,you maybe hint at Columbia. Still, when using my portables, I always use the 101 or 102, maybe it is the sheer outer beauty of these portables that make me choose them, instead of opening a Columbia from the same period. That said, the Columbia 9000, is maybe my favourite, even if it in most aspects is a 102 in a somehwat different costume.
The prices you mention, are in the area where I thought they would be. I have to date not see a grey or brown 102 in my area, I don't know if it can have anything to do if they never were imported here or not, or if they simply are that rare here. Since these machines are sold here in this collection, they may or may not have been originally sold here.That is an aspect I will take into consideration when considering making a new bid on this series, since importing a brown or grey from the UK, will be far more expensive, taking into consideration transport and VAT etc. I have to date never bought a gramophone on Ebay, it is not really an option when living here, and also the Salesroom are out of reach. Importing gramophones from the EU/UK, when living here, is not really a good option, it will always be too expensive. I made one exception to that rule when buying the red Columbia portable from Japan this winter, but that was only a one time adventure, becaused I really wanted a pristine red Japan made Columbia.

This range of 102s is a private sale, sold by the family of a deceased long time collector, so it is not on Ebay or any Auction site.
My reason for possibly selling the German approximation of the Intermediate Monarch, in favor of this collection, is shown on the photo below...
I already have the exact same machine, in my kitchen.....