Been criticized for playing a Berliner Record on a Victrola

[Edisonfan]

So, I have a video on YouTube on my Berliner Record playing on my Victrola VV-X and hav people point out I shouldn’t do that? Because the record is being damaged? Also, playing it one time on the Victrola is equivalent to playing it 1,000 times on a minder turntable! What???? Considering, how old the record is, plus condition, plus the fact it was played on a machine with a steel needle before I bought it, not too mention it may have been manhandled before i bought it. Plus, the materials are not as good as latter records. All, I know is, they video has 4,000 views and 30 likes. Some people, just need to cool it. This is no worse than a person playing a 78 from the 1940’s or 1950’s on an acoustical machine.


Paul

[epigramophone]

I once heard some fool moaning that the original owners of these early records "ruined" them with steel needles, blissfully unaware that fibre needles did not then exist. For me the hobby is all about playing records on the machines for which they were designed.

[AmberolaAndy]

I once heard some fool moaning that the original owners of these early records "ruined" them with steel needles, blissfully unaware that fibre needles did not then exist. For me the hobby is all about playing records on the machines for which they were designed.

Gotta love the Audiophool crowd being annoying about that.

[JeffR1]

Now if it was an Edison Diamond Disc being played on a VTLA, that's OK..

You should write what you said here on the forum in the comment section.
Stir the pot...

[Lah Ca]

So, I have a video on YouTube on my Berliner Record playing on my Victrola VV-X and hav people point out I shouldn’t do that?

Paul

It is your record, and as they do say, "Possession is 9/10ths of the law." While I might (or might not) be privately horrified if you chose to play it with a chainsaw, it still wouldn't be any of my business.

This is no worse than a person playing a 78 from the 1940’s or 1950’s on an acoustical machine.

Paul

I have a portable which probably dates to 1941. I guess there are no contemporary records for it. Useless machine.

[Edisonfan]

So, I have a video on YouTube on my Berliner Record playing on my Victrola VV-X and hav people point out I shouldn’t do that?

Paul

It is your record, and as they do say, "Possession is 9/10ths of the law." While I might (or might not) be privately horrified if you chose to play it with a chainsaw, it still wouldn't be any of my business.

True! Not that I would be playing my Berliner with a chainsaw!

This is no worse than a person playing a 78 from the 1940’s or 1950’s on an acoustical machine.

Paul

I have a portable which probably dates to 1941. I guess there are no contemporary records for it. Useless machine.

I walked into that one!

[bart1927]

Ruining it may be an exaggeration, but it is a fact that playing a 78 with a steel needle and probably at least 150 grams stylus pressure from the heavy reproducer will most likely wear it out quicker than playing it on a modern turntable with a diamond needle and around 5 grams pressure.

How much damage it will cause, of course, also depends on the record. With loud recordings you will see (and hear) the damage much sooner than with softer recordings. I have several records from the 1920's that were recorded at a high volume (or have loud passages, or heavy drumming), and even the ones that for the most part look E+ will have wear and/or stressed grooves in the loud parts. So even though these records probably weren't played very often with a steel needle, those few times were enough to damage the record.

So, personally, I only play 78's on vintage equipment if they are very common and already pretty worn. Everything that's E- or better or uncommon, I only play on my modern turntable.

Of course, there's no law against playing records with steel needles, or making vases out of them, or using them for target practice. But simply the fact that you're allowed to do something doesn't necessarily mean you should do it.

It depends of course on how you perceive yourself as a collector. Some collectors just collect for fun, they just want to enjoy their collection and that's it. Others have a more preservationist approach and see themselves as keepers of cultural heritage.

I'm not taking sides here or saying that one approach is better than the other, but if somebody gets angry at the idea of playing a 78 with a steel needle, I understand where they're coming from.

[Edisonfan]

Ruining it may be an exaggeration, but it is a fact that playing a 78 with a steel needle and probably at least 150 grams stylus pressure from the heavy reproducer will most likely wear it out quicker than playing it on a modern turntable with a diamond needle and around 5 grams pressure.

How much damage it will cause, of course, also depends on the record. With loud recordings you will see (and hear) the damage much sooner than with softer recordings. I have several records from the 1920's that were recorded at a high volume (or have loud passages, or heavy drumming), and even the ones that for the most part look E+ will have wear and/or stressed grooves in the loud parts. So even though these records probably weren't played very often with a steel needle, those few times were enough to damage the record.

So, personally, I only play 78's on vintage equipment if they are very common and already pretty worn. Everything that's E- or better or uncommon, I only play on my modern turntable.

Of course, there's no law against playing records with steel needles, or making vases out of them, or using them for target practice. But simply the fact that you're allowed to do something doesn't necessarily mean you should do it.

It depends of course on how you perceive yourself as a collector. Some collectors just collect for fun, they just want to enjoy their collection and that's it. Others have a more preservationist approach and see themselves as keepers of cultural heritage.

I'm not taking sides here or saying that one approach is better than the other, but if somebody gets angry at the idea of playing a 78 with a steel needle, I understand where they're coming from.

Thank you Bart!

[Marco Gilardetti]

I remembering reading on this board, some years ago, other fellows that complained about receiving the same stupid comments. I thought they had given up in the meanwhile, but apparently it isn't so.

I'd be curious to read some of these comments myself, just to find out whether they're made by idiots who don't know that these records were specifically made to be played with steel needles, or by history preservation maniacs who have a boring habit of telling others how they should preserve their objects - I mean as if these objects were purchased with public funds, and stored in state buildings with plenty of space. What a silliness!

[Edisonfan]

“Playing it on an early machine once is equal to playing it 1000 times on modern light tone arm & stylus. So you decide if it's worth protecting it for future generations of collectors.” — received three days ago.


Paul