"The photos form part of the description...."

[Steve]

Can anyone please throw any light on the completely dispensable wording I keep seeing on seemingly every Ebay listing from the single word, can't be bothered descriptions to the 4 page descriptive efforts and that is namely an added line about "the photos form part of the description". Is it a new Ebay stipulation as it seems everyone is getting in on the act?

I would have thought it was obvious that the photos are of the object and therefore help to "describe" it but why is everyone deciding to spell it out now all of a sudden?

[52089]

It's because buyers are using lack of explicit notice of defects as an excuse for an "item not as described" ("INAD") return. In other words, if you show a horn with a scratch in the photos, don't explicitly point it out in the description, and don't put something like "photos are part of the description" in the listing, it opens the door for an INAD return. When the buyer requests an INAD return, eBay pretty much automatically sides with the buyer, and you are then expected to pay all costs the buyer has for the return. Buyers are hoping you'll tell them to just keep the item instead, which they then get for free because of eBay's policies.

Easier to add those few words than to go through all the above manipulation and expenses.

[Steve]

Yes, I understand that but the question remains why now? Sellers have been selling without the message for over 25 years so what has changed? Is it Ebay policy all of a sudden?

The other problem I see is that it's okay for a seller to have his/her "get out of jail free" card with that handy little message, but if you're going to expect buyers to rely on your photos, then at least provide good photos and many more of them than most seem to offer. Take a portable gramophone for example, how many sellers will even bother to show the outside case condition? Very, very few in my experience.

[JerryVan]

It seems that buyers have far more protection and recourse than they once did, (which perhaps several are abusing). Probably why lately, sellers have adopted a "less is better" approach to their descriptions, leaning instead on a more or less "photos only" approach. Heaven forbid, if I say, "it's got 3 small dents" and a buyer somehow finds a fourth! So, "Here's the pictures. Count your own dents." All that being said, I don't like the "photos form the description" cop-out either. I tend to describe my items in as much detail as possible. And yes, a great deal of eBay photos are terrible.

[poodling around]

It seems that buyers have far more protection and recourse than they once did, (which perhaps several are abusing). Probably why lately, sellers have adopted a "less is better" approach to their descriptions, leaning instead on a more or less "photos only" approach. Heaven forbid, if I say, "it's got 3 small dents" and a buyer somehow finds a fourth! So, "Here's the pictures. Count your own dents." All that being said, I don't like the "photos form the description" cop-out either. I tend to describe my items in as much detail as possible. And yes, a great deal of eBay photos are terrible.

'Count your own dents' - that made me laugh !!!!! Good one !

'And yes, a great deal of ebay photo's are terrible'. ....................... Really ? Have it look at this one. It is almost art in it-self. Belongs in an art gallery if you ask me !

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266260449308 ... R5q4koWFYg

[Steve]

I'm surprised it doesn't have the mandatory "the lamp is not included" blurb in there. I mean in the gallery picture at least the lamp IS the main event!

I do like it when sellers put some crappy worn out record on a turntable to photograph a machine when all we want to see is the condition and originality of the felt! Then they insist "the record is not included". Great, thanks, so take the **** thing off it then and fling it!

Do you ever wonder what goes on in their heads? I've seen countless Ebay listings where that happens and yet its painfully obvious they are not collectors and have nothing else to play that precious copy of "White Christmas" on. What do they actually do with it afterwards? Frame it? Attempt to go on The Bidding Room with it? Queue up to see an expert at The Antiques Roadshow maybe? It quite obviously is worth much more than the machine in their eyes

That ad also successfully avoids showing the case. Maybe there's a school for this approach?

[poodling around]

I'm surprised it doesn't have the mandatory "the lamp is not included" blurb in there. I mean in the gallery picture at least the lamp IS the main event!

I do like it when sellers put some crappy worn out record on a turntable to photograph a machine when all we want to see is the condition and originality of the felt! Then they insist "the record is not included". Great, thanks, so take the **** thing off it then and fling it!

Do you ever wonder what goes on in their heads? I've seen countless Ebay listings where that happens and yet its painfully obvious they are not collectors and have nothing else to play that precious copy of "White Christmas" on. What do they actually do with it afterwards? Frame it? Attempt to go on The Bidding Room with it? Queue up to see an expert at The Antiques Roadshow maybe? It quite obviously is worth much more than the machine in their eyes

That ad also successfully avoids showing the case. Maybe there's a school for this approach?

Well, if the lamp is included it's got to be better than some I've seen in Gilbert gramophones.

*I must admit when I read 'These can command big prices' and saw that it has a Collaro motor I got all excited and studied the photos extremely carfully to see if it might be one of those EMG Portable 'drawing-board stage' proto-types everyone talks about. *I'm still unsure about that.

Key:
*There is a joke there somewhere. This paragraph is not to be taken seriously.

Can you tell though if the motor in this portable is one that was used by EMG ?

[Steve]

I'm surprised it doesn't have the mandatory "the lamp is not included" blurb in there. I mean in the gallery picture at least the lamp IS the main event!

I do like it when sellers put some crappy worn out record on a turntable to photograph a machine when all we want to see is the condition and originality of the felt! Then they insist "the record is not included". Great, thanks, so take the **** thing off it then and fling it!

Do you ever wonder what goes on in their heads? I've seen countless Ebay listings where that happens and yet its painfully obvious they are not collectors and have nothing else to play that precious copy of "White Christmas" on. What do they actually do with it afterwards? Frame it? Attempt to go on The Bidding Room with it? Queue up to see an expert at The Antiques Roadshow maybe? It quite obviously is worth much more than the machine in their eyes

That ad also successfully avoids showing the case. Maybe there's a school for this approach?

Well, if the lamp is included it's got to be better than some I've seen in Gilbert gramophones.

*I must admit when I read 'These can command big prices' and saw that it has a Collaro motor I got all excited and studied the photos extremely carfully to see if it might be one of those EMG Portable 'drawing-board stage' proto-types everyone talks about. *I'm still unsure about that.

Key:
*There is a joke there somewhere. This paragraph is not to be taken seriously.

Can you tell though if the motor in this portable is one that was used by EMG ?

EXPERT used Collaro D30 I believe but there may be others. I do have an Expert Senior with Collaro D30 but I haven't looked at the motor for 16 years! I can tell you though that the Ebay portable has less to do with EMG / Expert than Marmite does! Obviously many other companies also used Collaro motors and not just EMG/EXPERT.

[poodling around]

I'm surprised it doesn't have the mandatory "the lamp is not included" blurb in there. I mean in the gallery picture at least the lamp IS the main event!

I do like it when sellers put some crappy worn out record on a turntable to photograph a machine when all we want to see is the condition and originality of the felt! Then they insist "the record is not included". Great, thanks, so take the **** thing off it then and fling it!

Do you ever wonder what goes on in their heads? I've seen countless Ebay listings where that happens and yet its painfully obvious they are not collectors and have nothing else to play that precious copy of "White Christmas" on. What do they actually do with it afterwards? Frame it? Attempt to go on The Bidding Room with it? Queue up to see an expert at The Antiques Roadshow maybe? It quite obviously is worth much more than the machine in their eyes

That ad also successfully avoids showing the case. Maybe there's a school for this approach?

Well, if the lamp is included it's got to be better than some I've seen in Gilbert gramophones.

*I must admit when I read 'These can command big prices' and saw that it has a Collaro motor I got all excited and studied the photos extremely carfully to see if it might be one of those EMG Portable 'drawing-board stage' proto-types everyone talks about. *I'm still unsure about that.

Key:
*There is a joke there somewhere. This paragraph is not to be taken seriously.

Can you tell though if the motor in this portable is one that was used by EMG ?

EXPERT used Collaro D30 I believe but there may be others. I do have an Expert Senior with Collaro D30 but I haven't looked at the motor for 16 years! I can tell you though that the Ebay portable has less to do with EMG / Expert than Marmite does!

Marmite you say ......... I think there may be a connection

[Roaring20s]

It's because buyers are using lack of explicit notice of defects as an excuse for an "item not as described" ("INAD") return. In other words, if you show a horn with a scratch in the photos, don't explicitly point it out in the description, and don't put something like "photos are part of the description" in the listing, it opens the door for an INAD return. When the buyer requests an INAD return, eBay pretty much automatically sides with the buyer, and you are then expected to pay all costs the buyer has for the return. Buyers are hoping you'll tell them to just keep the item instead, which they then get for free because of eBay's policies.

Easier to add those few words than to go through all the above manipulation and expenses.

100%. When I sold stuff on eBay I used that phrase, but I also included many clear photos. I did not want any issues.

Yes, I understand that but the question remains why now? Sellers have been selling without the message for over 25 years so what has changed? Is it Ebay policy all of a sudden?

The other problem I see is that it's okay for a seller to have his/her "get out of jail free" card with that handy little message, but if you're going to expect buyers to rely on your photos, then at least provide good photos and many more of them than most seem to offer. Take a portable gramophone for example, how many sellers will even bother to show the outside case condition? Very, very few in my experience.

I used that phrase for the fussiest of buyers. I think it's just lazy and unprofessional not to be clear, and has become a sort-cut. It will not work if a strong argument can be made.

I bought a slotted crank off of eBay. It had damage on the slotted end and was written and pictured. No problem, it still works fine. I got it, some of the wooden handle was missing, not written or pictured. I send a message to the seller pointing it out in words and a photo. I also said I was keeping it as is and that he should have at least shown it. He as not nice in his reply, as if it happens often. I clearly told him that I was being informative and he was wrong in his reply to me. This was a professional sounding as if he has had enough and was blaming the customer, but it was his own doing.

James.