Question About Floating Reproducers

[SonnyPhono]

Someone stopped by today with a Type Q and wanted me to fix the reproducer. I expected a #7 reproducer to be on it, but instead it has a #2.

Will this work properly on a Type Q? I don't see any reason that it wouldn't work properly but thought I had better check first before doing a complete rebuild.

Also, the diaphragm is cracked and broken where the stylus bar mounts to the diaphragm. I am going to order a new diaphragm and since I haven't rebuilt a #2 floating reproducer before, was wondering what gasket material to use. I am assuming it should be 2 layers of wax with the diaphragm centered between the layers. Is this correct?

Thanks for the help!

[SonnyPhono]

I think I might have found the answer to my question. Did the floating reproducers use both gaskets and wax? It appears maybe they use gaskets to isolate the diaphragm and wax to seal along the exposed edge. But is this the case with the #2 reproducer considering it has a screw-in-bezel?

[phonogfp]

The #2 reproducer was not originally supplied with the Q. Early Qs with the pressed steel base used a #3, while later models with the cast base used a #7.

That said, I've seen many Qs fitted with a #2. I suppose if the little lift collar is present and shaped to raise the reproducer sufficiently to clear the thickness of the record, it would work.

The #2 uses no wax to isolate the diaphragm - just rubber gaskets and paper washers. If the diaphragm has been replaced, the paper washers may be missing, but if it looks untouched, you can salvage the paper washers and re-use them if you're careful.

I'd recommend putting a drop or two of penetrating oil around the outer perimeter of the bezel. If the reproducer is in nice shape, you may not need the oil, as the gaskets will have shrunk as they dried up. Removing the bezel is best done with a tool you can make by precisely driving two small nails into a piece of wood, then cutting them with a Dremel so they protrude approx. ¼". (I've removed bezels using a tiny jeweler's screwdriver inserted into one hole, but this is not for the faint of heart, and if you're prone to clumsiness, will result in a scar across the face of the bezel!)

Once the bezel is removed, CAREFULLY remove the rubber gasket above the diaphragm. The paper washer (if present) will be stuck to it. Both washer and gasket are brittle with age, so if the gasket breaks apart from excessive force, the paper probably will too. Instead, gently bend the gasket slightly so small pieces separate from the paper and the rest of the gasket. You should end up with about 20 pieces of gasket, but with the paper intact. Remove the diaphragm and remove the lower gasket.

If you ruin a paper washer or if they're not present, it's no big deal. I've rebuilt lots of them missing the paper washers, and they play fine. They simply reduce the binding between the bezel and the upper gasket as you tighten the former.

Hope this helps - -

George P.

[SonnyPhono]

Thanks George. That was exactly the info I was looking for.

This rebuild will probably be tougher than normal. The bezel holes have been "stretched" by someone using the wrong tools and what looks like way too much force. There also appears to be glue of some sort sealing the bezel and the adjacent gasket. I am going to make the tool you described to try to remove the bezel and will probably have to try to remove the glue before doing anything.

Hopefully this will go well. Thanks again for the helpful advice.

[phonogfp]

Ouch - - sounds like you have your work cut out for you. Wouldn't restorations be much simpler if we didn't have to repair the damage done by "handymen?"

Good luck!

George P.

[SonnyPhono]

Well, I finally got the bezel off. Thanks again for the info and advice. I had to use penetrating oil and let it sit for a couple hours and also had to carefully heat the outside of the reproducer head with a micro torch. Fortunately aluminum doesn't discolor with heat. I made the tool that was suggested and had to really put some torque on it. (Carefully I might add.). It finally broke loose and now I am waiting on the diaphragm and gaskets to arrive so I can finish the rebuild.

Thanks again for the help, George.

[edisonphonoworks]

My largest complaint about reproducer rebuilding is the new mica diaphragms, they are thick and flat, this results in los of volume, and tinny sound, the only material that can be flat and perform well is thin glass,. A stepped mica, bis good too, like the original so the outside response to Bass, and thick center to highs, wish someone would create sorbothane reproducer and recorder gaskets, to. Get rid of standing waves, and act as a compressor, or dead beat galvonometer.

[SonnyPhono]

So tonight I completed all of the work on the Graphophone Q I have been working on. The reproducer has been cleaned properly and I am waiting for the diaphragm and gaskets to complete it's rebuild. So everything was going great...until I forgot I had a 15 month old and put the reproducer too close to the edge of a table. She grabbed it and I ran towards her to try to get it before she did any damage. She thought I was playing "chase" and immediately threw it aside and took off laughing. Of course it landed directly on the stylus breaking it off clean at the base.

So now I have to replace the stylus which is something I haven't done before on a floating reproducer. I know I can get a new one and if I go with glass, it isn't very expensive. But I don't know how to mount it. I will do some searching through past threads and will search the net as well for the process of mounting a stylus. But in the meantime, does anyone have any tips that may be helpful?

Thanks again!

[JohnM]

Tips? You can sell the children to Gypsies!

Styli are cemented into place with melted shredded stick shellac. I use a watchmaker's 'Combination Arbor Tool' to clamp the stylus bar in. The CAT has a block of metal on the other end that is heated in an alcohol flame (or gently with a propane torch -- never MAPP). The heat transfers through the tool and then through the stylus bar and melts the stick shellac. Pull the stub out with jeweler's tweezers. To set a new stylus, dab a sliver of shredded stick shellac into the hole and set the stylus with the tweezers. As the tool cools when removed from the flame, the shellac will set up. Tend the stylus with the tweezers until it is immobile. You'll also need a jeweler's loupe. Denatured alcohol is the solvent for the residual shellac on the stylus bar when you remove the stub. Scrub it clean (when it is cool) in the alcohol with a soft brass-bristle parts cleaning brush. I use a shallow glass clock crystal as a dish. Keep the alcohol dish away from the open flame (and your hair when your working in close with the loupe!).

The CAT is #98934X Combination Tool here: http://www.execulink.com/~lfoord/tools.html. It's a PITA, but you have to scroll down down down until you find it.

[edisonphonoworks]

My daughter Azreala is going to be two on march 12th, when she was around 9 months she recorded on my Ediphone, and now has the hang of playing an Amberola 30. The only real trouble she got into was. Smashing three new Edison blanks, in the blank curing box which was my fault and it was immidiately put out of reach thereafter. When she is 10, (if still interested) I will buy her an Edison Gem B and recorder.