HMV 203 Gramophone on Yahoo Auction Japan

[Watanabehi]

It was sold relatively not so expensive with this condition today in Japan.

[Sidewinder]

Is that like £5000 / $ 6000 ?

[Watanabehi]

Is that like £5000 / $ 6000 ?

It is about $6000.00. It is used to be like around $40000.00, if it is very good condition about 30 years ago in Japan. It is a bargain.

[Steve]

Is that like £5000 / $ 6000 ?

It is about $6000.00. It is used to be like around $40000.00, if it is very good condition about 30 years ago in Japan. It is a bargain.

That means there's been an incredible and unprecedented reversal of prices between the UK and Japan as for the first time in their history they are now more expensive here than in Japan. I note Japanese sellers are optimistically attempting to sell back to the UK at unrealistic prices. Bearing in mind the customs issues and exorbitant shipping prices now, the chances of success are a fat zero.

It's quite lamentable that most disappeared to Japan in the first place.

[chunnybh]

It's quite lamentable that most disappeared to Japan in the first place.

If it wasn't for the Japanese saving these rare beasts they would have mostly ended up worthless and rotting in sheds.

[Garret]

It's quite lamentable that most disappeared to Japan in the first place.

If it wasn't for the Japanese saving these rare beasts they would have mostly ended up worthless and rotting in sheds.

Are you sure? Why were the prices in the 1990s so high? Were the British not bidding, too?

Garret

[Steve]

It's quite lamentable that most disappeared to Japan in the first place.

If it wasn't for the Japanese saving these rare beasts they would have mostly ended up worthless and rotting in sheds.

Are you sure? Why were the prices in the 1990s so high? Were the British not bidding, too?

Garret

As I've said before, the British Market has always been a bit strange with the bulk of it wanting smaller common machines and inexpensive items for restoration. I won't repeat my garden shed theory again for fear of it becoming a cliche.

But to answer your question, no, it seems the British were not bidding because these were expensive and large items. I was leant on the first example at Sothebys when it sold for a small fortune over 30 years ago. I remember thinking it was an impressive machine and surely the "grandaddy". I wanted one but could only dream when the prices sailed past £15,000. A decade later I had the funds and they had already halved in price so despite the fact that many had already gone overseas I bought one and endured the wrath of two dealers for a while who no doubt had a Japanese client lined up for it so I arguably "saved one from rotting in a shed". Okay, all I really did was prevent it from going to Japan and then eventually China but I still own it and after 18 years it's become my most used machine.

The value is unimportant to me; the obvious quality of the machine is what's important. What I do find curious is the claimed predictions of some people I've met who would have you believe they didn't buy one back in the 1990s because they knew where the prices would end up decades later. I presume these same people have also won the lottery several times as well?!

It's true, the 202/203 do not offer the ultimate sound reproduction as the largest EMGs and Expert machines offer better sound, also at a very high price. But to compare the two you might as well compare an EMG to a Trademark gramophone, which British collectors do buy. They are from a different era, albeit the re-entrant and the EMG 10A/B are closer in time.

I think aesthetics play into this as well. Whilst many non-collectors view the EMG as an ugly and weird looking contraption, a lot of collectors like the shear presence of the machine. It's undoubtably a talking point in any house. Meanwhile the 202 hides out, pretending to be some mid 18th Century "Jacobean" style cupboard lifted straight from the entrance to a castle. It's imposing but doesn't shout "gramophone" from the rooftops and that impressive horn is hidden behind cloth. What made these folded internal horns so remarkable back in the day, thanks to Western Electric's ingenious design, was how they were folded into a compact box shape to be conveniently housed within a piece of furniture. Today it arguably fails to "show off" its credentials under the bonnet. Whilst obviously large, it doesn't really sell itself as a musical instrument in the same way an EMG does. I have also heard them being referred to as "coffins", a description I would think is more befitting a Victrola style traditional cabinet gramophone with record cupboard and horn behind two pairs of doors.

[chunnybh]

I note Japanese sellers are optimistically attempting to sell back to the UK at unrealistic prices. Bearing in mind the customs issues and exorbitant shipping prices now, the chances of success are a fat zero.

I doubt that is the market they are aiming at.
I'm guessing like everywhere in this hobby we are all getting old and some of our Japanese friend are now passing them onto the next generation. The obvious market is China. They are the only ones at the moment that have the cash and when things are going well, people tend to "invest" in antiques.
The last time I was at an auction house in the UK, I noted that a lot of things were selling to China. In fact containers full of all sorts of "collectables" were being shipped there.
The pandemic may have slowed that down but I still believe they are the next booming market for antiques.
I mind seeing Chines tourists in Hong Kong drinking expensive wine and adding coke to it. Yes, really!. That doesn't happen now. They have very quickly acquired a taste and extensive knowledge for fine wine and I am sure for all the other finer things in life.

[Inigo]

That said, I would light a torch in favour of HMV reentrants.... They're not as good and amazing as an Emg-esque machine... but, god! how good they sound! I've never listened to an emg nor a 202 in the flesh, but I own a well restored 194, and to me, it compares favourably with any other thing I've listened to for playing 78s. I could be biased, and as you may know, the ears and brain of a78 collector gets used to any sound very easily. We learn to listen to any machine, and after some time, it sounds good. But.... HMV reentrants are very very good.

[Steve]

I note Japanese sellers are optimistically attempting to sell back to the UK at unrealistic prices. Bearing in mind the customs issues and exorbitant shipping prices now, the chances of success are a fat zero.

I doubt that is the market they are aiming at.
I'm guessing like everywhere in this hobby we are all getting old and some of our Japanese friend are now passing them onto the next generation. The obvious market is China. They are the only ones at the moment that have the cash and when things are going well, people tend to "invest" in antiques.
The last time I was at an auction house in the UK, I noted that a lot of things were selling to China. In fact containers full of all sorts of "collectables" were being shipped there.
The pandemic may have slowed that down but I still believe they are the next booming market for antiques.
I mind seeing Chines tourists in Hong Kong drinking expensive wine and adding coke to it. Yes, really!. That doesn't happen now. They have very quickly acquired a taste and extensive knowledge for fine wine and I am sure for all the other finer things in life.

When you say "adding coke", I presume you mean Coca Cola and not the white powder kind?