HMV 203 Gramophone on Yahoo Auction Japan

[Steve]

I note Japanese sellers are optimistically attempting to sell back to the UK at unrealistic prices. Bearing in mind the customs issues and exorbitant shipping prices now, the chances of success are a fat zero.

I doubt that is the market they are aiming at.
I'm guessing like everywhere in this hobby we are all getting old and some of our Japanese friend are now passing them onto the next generation. The obvious market is China. They are the only ones at the moment that have the cash and when things are going well, people tend to "invest" in antiques.
The last time I was at an auction house in the UK, I noted that a lot of things were selling to China. In fact containers full of all sorts of "collectables" were being shipped there.
The pandemic may have slowed that down but I still believe they are the next booming market for antiques.
I mind seeing Chines tourists in Hong Kong drinking expensive wine and adding coke to it. Yes, really!. That doesn't happen now. They have very quickly acquired a taste and extensive knowledge for fine wine and I am sure for all the other finer things in life.

Yes, I was playing Devil's Advocate with my "selling to the UK" comment. I do realise, no one in Japan is THAT naive. But, by offering the machine worldwide it is of course available to the UK, even if China is now the place being targeted. How long before we see reproduction 202's, I wonder?

[Inigo]

If someone would make cheap reproductions, horn in plastic parts, could be sound-inertized with plaster applied on the outside, tonearm and soundbox... These parts could be made fairly cheap with today's manufacturing machinery and modern materials... It would be great! Can be made really cheap if the processes are standardized and production is large, of course. On the other hand, the one of a kind reproduction process of emg xb oversized horns that our colleague emgcr made possible some years ago... but this was art and careful handmade labour of love... very expensive process...

[emgcr]

On the other hand, the one of a kind reproduction process of emg xb oversized horns that our colleague emgcr made possible some years ago... but this was art and careful handmade labour of love... very expensive process...

I am afraid you are right Inigo. I wish it were different but that is certainly the reality. Give me an order for 100 EMG Xb Oversize gramophones and I'll make them reasonably cheaply although the hand-made element still does not really allow great economies of scale.

[Sidewinder]

Since all the large re-entrant experts are gathered here in 1 spot.......anyone have a 202 horn they are looking to part with? Oil bath motor as well! I have a mint cabinet (golden oak) that a genius converted to hi-fi, with a barrage of speakers mounted behind the grill!!

UK or Euro mainland are areas I can reach. Many thanks

[Steve]

Since all the large re-entrant experts are gathered here in 1 spot.......anyone have a 202 horn they are looking to part with? Oil bath motor as well! I have a mint cabinet (golden oak) that a genius converted to hi-fi, with a barrage of speakers mounted behind the grill!!

UK or Euro mainland are areas I can reach. Many thanks

You have a much higher chance of getting the motor than the horn. There was a guy attempting to sell 2 wrecked 200 series machines a while ago on Ebay but although I don't think they sold, his machines have never reappeared to my knowledge.

Whilst the motor is arguably easier to find (as it can be re-purposed and was possibly more likely to have been saved than the horn) it could still take years to see one for sale as a spare. I think they were only used in the 193/4 and 202/3 and possibly a handful of oddball Indian machines thereafter during the "electrical" period.

Sorry, I know this isn't much help but I think it's better to be honest than to artificially build hope.

[Inigo]

If somebody had the drawings for the horns, it would be marvelous... they seem not difficult to build... (Still on the crazy idea of making a copy of the rentrant horn using plastic sheets...)

[nostalgia]

A question for those who have owned or listened to both a 163 and a 202/203.
Is there a big difference in sound quality between the 163 and the bigger models.
And, if yes....do you feel it justifies the rather big price difference betweeen these models?

[CarlosV]

If somebody had the drawings for the horns, it would be marvelous... they seem not difficult to build... (Still on the crazy idea of making a copy of the rentrant horn using plastic sheets...)

Iñigo, there are the patents of Western Electric that can give a clue, but the easiest way to copy specifically the HMV horn would be to get a HMV163, which is readily available, take the horn measures and scale them up to fit a 202 cabinet. To get that done it probably would require dismantling the horn and reverse engineering it. Still I don't think it would be easy work, from what I have seen both in the US and English designs (I have a Credenza and a 202), the curves are hard to reproduce, and the paths inside it are quite tortuous, not easy to build without a set of instructions.

[CarlosV]

A question for those who have owned or listened to both a 163 and a 202/203.
Is there a big difference in sound quality between the 163 and the bigger models.
And, if yes....do you feel it justifies the rather big price difference betweeen these models?

Yes to both! There is no comparison, the 202 is in a different league.

[nostalgia]

Thank you, Carlos.
Then I know, there is still something to look for out there, even if I had come to terms with myself about not buying more gramophones...