What stops a record from playing?

[marcapra]

I tried to play a Ted Lewis record on my large Cheney phonograph and after a few seconds the record ground to a halt. Even with the spring wound up all the way, this Columbia electric record ground to halt. When I tried this record on my Columbia viva tonal 800 model, it played through. Then I tried to play an older Gold Band Columbia record on the Cheney and it played. I have had machines that would stop when trying to play a Gold Band Columbia. The Ted Lewis record I tried to play was a loud instrumental jazzy piece. Maybe the Cheney could not handle the loud vibrations in the groove? Or maybe the record had too much wear? Has anyone else had trouble with Columbia records?

[recordmaker]

Columbia records of the laminated type and the post 1923 process do tend to slow or stop some machines in my experience.
The laminate is a thin layer of resin and fine mineral filler and can wear through to the paper with a heavy sound box and a loud needle and this will cause drag when played by but only shows as greyish look to the record surface.
I also think that the cutting stylus shape on these records may have been sharper than other companies used but
I suspect that people making electrical transfers will know what fits that best.
in general a Columbia machine should of course play an unworn record OK but I think they go from playable to unplayable suddenly compared with solid stock pressings.

[Inigo]

I do have problems with drag in laminated Columbians, especially when using bamboo needles. This problem extends to the later red label CBS Columbians of the late 1930s and 1940s.
I've always felt that these too shiny surfaces exert a larger drag, I've noticed it in other records with shiny surfaces. On the other hand, I see that a certain degree of soft roughness is good, giving a bit more hiss, but they track much better, the ideal being the good black label acoustic Victor's of the 1910s and 1920s.

[JerryVan]

Some records have more drag than others, (formulation, wear, loud passages). I'd say your Cheney has some marginal springs. Apparently not an issue however, except for that one record.

[CarlosV]

I tried to play a Ted Lewis record on my large Cheney phonograph and after a few seconds the record ground to a halt. Even with the spring wound up all the way, this Columbia electric record ground to halt.

Wear of the record allied to a stiff soundbox connection are probably the culprits. I have had successful results using ibota wax on such records, it reduces the drag and in most cases allows it to play.

[marcapra]

The Columbia record that stopped was an early electric, pre-Viva-Tonal, from 1925, the Camel Walk/ Bam, Bam, Bamy Shore. I didn't see greying in the groove. But then, Cheney machines were not made to play electric records. The volume level of these sides is high, so maybe that had something to do with it. Also, even though my reproducers were rebuilt by Wyatt Markus, the gutta-percha diaphragms are original. and I noticed quite a bit of buzzing and vibration from the reproducer when playing another electric records. I probably should stick to acoustic records, or soft electric records on this machine.

[Marco Gilardetti]

Cheney machines were not made to play electric records. The volume level of these sides is high, so maybe that had something to do with it.

It definitely has to do with it, although on the other hand electric recordings tend in general to have a smoother surface.

"Orchorsol" (Andy) and I, after much observation and experimentation, tend to agree that some records have developed some kind of chemical essudation, which is sticky/touchy and generates an intense braking force on the needle. There are cases in which such records can be played on one machine (not necessarily the one that looks the most powerful) but not on another, up to extreme cases in which the record can't be played on any machine at all.

As already introduced by Carlos, cleaning the record and treating it with ibota wax solves the problem. So far, I couldn't find a record so bad that it could not be restored by the combination of cleaning/waxing. Should you be interested, the process is shown in this clip precisely with a record that stops the turntable; such record is then restored to the extent that it is not only possible to play it with a steel needle, but also with a thorn:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MP46I9gtV1U

[OrthoFan]

From what I've heard, playing electrically recorded records with a Cheney reproducer is kind of hit or miss--as noted above--though whether the issues are caused by the Gutta Percha diaphragm, errors in tracking, or the mass/weight of the tonearm, I don't know.

According to an article by RJ Wakeman, Gutta Percha degrades with time, losing its flexibility. I don't know if you've seen it, but the article used to appear on Tim Gracyk's site. I have attached a copy, culled from the Internet Archive:

FROM: https://web.archive.org/web/20150519001 ... eney.shtml

The Cheney Talking Machine--RJ Wakeman.pdf

(137.61 KiB) Downloaded 28 times

I don't know if this violates any copyright rules, etc., but if it does, I'll remove the file.

OrthoFan

[marcapra]

Thank you Ortho Fan. Yes a hard gutta percha diaphragm probably has a lot to do with it. I tried to play an acoustic record last night and it also would not play on the Cheney. It was a 1924 red wax Vocalion of Fletcher Henderson playing Dicty Blues/ Doodle Um Doo.

[Curt A]

My old standby - WD-40, also works well to restore the record surface...