Columbia Graphophone

[Garret]

- Strip silver paint
- Replate bracket, tone arm, other metal parts with Watts Nickel
- Repaint horn properly
- Rebuild soundbox
- Rebuild motor

Does the cabinet need any work, too?

$800 might seem high, but it isn't completely unreasonable.

[gramophone-georg]

- Strip silver paint
- Replate bracket, tone arm, other metal parts with Watts Nickel
- Repaint horn properly
- Rebuild soundbox
- Rebuild motor

Does the cabinet need any work, too?

$800 might seem high, but it isn't completely unreasonable.

I agree.
There's a lot of someone's labor time there, and it does need veneer work- look at the motor board. I run into this sort of thing all the time on auto restorations... there's always tons of finger fiddling time to get things exactly right, especially when the owner or previous owner has taken on their own repairs without any or much knowledge. Again... for a great example of this (in addition to everything else) look at the motor board. They NAILED DOWN the lifting veneer!

IF the restorer does it exactly right and IF your fiancee's appreciation is worth the cost of the machine and the repairs... I say go for it. If you are looking at this as an "investment"... stop, sell it, and just buy a better example. In my German car biz, my advice to any customer is to buy the best/ most complete original car you can afford. "There's nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes"... or Porsche, VW, etc., for that matter... and that also applies here, unless you are the specialist doing your own work and have most of the parts you need already. Bargains usually aren't.

Also please be aware that additional unforeseen issues can very well present themselves after work has begun, driving up the price.

[JerryVan]

- Strip silver paint
- Replate bracket, tone arm, other metal parts with Watts Nickel
- Repaint horn properly
- Rebuild soundbox
- Rebuild motor

Does the cabinet need any work, too?

$800 might seem high, but it isn't completely unreasonable.

Maybe. The question is however, is the machine worth the investment? At $1100 "all in", I say no.

Consider also, that we don't know if all of those things were included in the price...

[alienj]

I thank you for these most detailed and informative responses! I guess I'd have to weigh it all and determine if I would really be capable of doing any of the work on it myself.

When I was looking for one to buy, there were very few and far between anywhere near my location. So I looked outside of my area. I saw that most were priced at between 1,000 -1500, if they were in excellent shape. I saw a couple that were 400 and 600. They looked a lot better than the one I bought, but they were two states away!

That someone nailed down the veneer really gets my goat. Idk why people do such things!
As stated originally, the machine does work... Though you have to play with the speed a bit. The felt is in rough shape as well. God only knows how it's works (do they call it works, like in a clock?) look. I can't get it to open. Are you supposed to push the little button (for lack of a better word) in? Pull it out? Turn it?

I also received about 50 old records with the machine. Some of them were in a case that looked reminiscent of the large photo albums we used back in the day. I was wondering if you could still buy those anywhere.

Thanks again!

[JerryVan]

I can't get it to open. Are you supposed to push the little button (for lack of a better word) in? Pull it out? Turn it?

Thanks again!

First, remove the crank by turning it backwards. Doing so should unscrew it from the motor. Then push in the little button just above the "Columbia" logo. You might have to push fairly hard. The lid should then hinge open. Send us a pic of what you find in there.

There's probably some key things that can be done to improve it's overall looks without a total restoration. Just cleaning the cabinet would likely make a huge improvement. It works well to use the hand cleaner Goop to remove the years a gunk on the finish. Get the type that does NOT contain pumice. Wipe it on, wait maybe 15 minutes, then wipe it off. Use a white towel, just to see how much grime has been removed. Repeat as needed. Go very lightly on the decal!!!! Then there's repainting the horn. Don't go too flashy on the color. It will not look right with an unrestored machine. (Yes, in the general sense, we tend to refer to these as "machines".) I tend to like original turntable felt. New felt always sticks out like a sore thumb. If you do it, stay away from the bright green stuff you'll find at hobby or fabric stores. There's an eBay seller that has some nice examples. Don't use the typical Elmer's white glue. Get some Eileen's Tacky Glue from a craft store. Spread it all over the turntable. This glue will not saturate through the felt like other white glues will. (Some folks also like a spray-on adhesive. I don't know what type to recommend for that.)

[alienj]

Thank you, Jerry Van! I haven't had a chance to open the machine (drove 500 miles to pick up a bird in need... shows you how crazy I am), but will try to do that tomorrow. I'll post what I find inside. In the meantime, what would you recommend I use on the speed control lever? For lubrication, I mean, as it sticks. I certainly don't want to cause any additional damage to the machine. I'm ordering your suggested products even as we speak (type?).

What should I strip the horn with? Having 3 pet birds I try to avoid the harsher chemicals (well, I try to avoid all long chain chemicals, but you can't when working with wood) as much as possible. If it's just an old patina someone didn't like I'll just leave it after stripping. If I do paint it, what kind of paint is used on these horns?

Thanks again!

P.S. Any thoughts on record storage?

[drh]

You can store records in albums--I think that's what you have; photos would confirm--that have a bunch of individual sleeves bound into a book form. In fact, I store my records in them. Old ones turn up regularly on eBay, but be careful, as many sellers seem to think they are going to finance their next trip to Bermuda by selling the things. In general they are not rare and should not cost more than a few dollars each. (But watch out, too, for the favorite eBay seller trick of pricing the item low and then charging out the nose for "postage and handling"). A trick: if you buy generic storage albums by mail, ask the seller to stick a few junk records in the sleeves. The shipment then will qualify for media mail postage, which is usually the cheapest rate.

Your best value will probably be generic albums from the '40s or so. The ones that originally came in Victrolas, Grafanolas, etc., etc. tend to be rather fragile, whereas what you want is practical working storage. A lot of the ones from the teens or so have (usually greenish) pages suffering from dry rot that have become brittle and are falling apart from age. You don't want those for storage.

If you store your records in albums, you need to be very careful about turning the "pages." Make sure the records are all rolled to the outer edge of each sleeve. With age, the glue goes bad in the hinge area, and a record that insinuates itself there will get a half-moon piece snapped out of the rim when you turn the page.

I think I may be in the minority in liking the old albums; most collectors seem to prefer individual envelopes (sleeves, covers, call them what you will). You can buy them new from Kurt Nauck's website, among other places. If you take this approach, shelve the records standing up, sleeve opening to the top, packed tightly enough that the records can't flop over but not so tightly that you can't easily pull a single record out. Single sleeves make me nervous--I always feel that they give the easily breakable records very little protection--but others, as noted, swear by this method and seem to have good results with it.

When I was starting out, I stored many of my records in wire record racks dating to the 1950s or thereabouts. I wouldn't recommend those today, although they worked OK for me at the time.

I hope that helps a bit.

[alienj]

Wow, so much good information! You people on this site are the absolute best! Most people on similar sites tend to get cranky if you ask a lot of beginner questions! I thank you!

The records I received with the machine were mostly in individual paper sleeves that disintegrated when you touched them! There was one photo album type had sleeves more like cardboard than paper. These sleeves have held up despite the covers and the glue holding the spine and sleeves together crumbling to dust when I first picked it up. Some of the sleeves still have visible handwriting on them.

At the moment the records are stacked against each other which I know is not good. What can I do for a temporary fix until I can order and receive some better storing items? Would a paper towel between each record suffice?

[alienj]

I can't get it to open. Are you supposed to push the little button (for lack of a better word) in? Pull it out? Turn it?

Thanks again!

First, remove the crank by turning it backwards. Doing so should unscrew it from the motor. Then push in the little button just above the "Columbia" logo. You might have to push fairly hard. The lid should then hinge open. Send us a pic of what you find in there.

There's probably some key things that can be done to improve it's overall looks without a total restoration. Just cleaning the cabinet would likely make a huge improvement. It works well to use the hand cleaner Goop to remove the years a gunk on the finish. Get the type that does NOT contain pumice. Wipe it on, wait maybe 15 minutes, then wipe it off. Use a white towel, just to see how much grime has been removed. Repeat as needed. Go very lightly on the decal!!!! Then there's repainting the horn. Don't go too flashy on the color. It will not look right with an unrestored machine. (Yes, in the general sense, we tend to refer to these as "machines".) I tend to like original turntable felt. New felt always sticks out like a sore thumb. If you do it, stay away from the bright green stuff you'll find at hobby or fabric stores. There's an eBay seller that has some nice examples. Don't use the typical Elmer's white glue. Get some Eileen's Tacky Glue from a craft store. Spread it all over the turntable. This glue will not saturate through the felt like other white glues will. (Some folks also like a spray-on adhesive. I don't know what type to recommend for that.)

Here's the inside of the machine.

[alienj]

These are the pictures of inside my machine. Thanks for the instructions on how to open it, @Jerry Van.