Pot Metal Dilemma on a VV 4-7

[Ortho4-7]

Hello, first time poster and long time lurker!

A couple years ago, I did what any sane person would do and responded to an ad for a free Victor VV 4-7 listed locally. It appeared to be in pristine unrestored condition at first blush, and came with about 70 discs (about half of them Victor scrolls from 1926-1931, the rest all 40’s/50’s stuff), and some paperwork that traced its journey from Schenectady to Chicago to Seattle over the years. Unfortunately, it wasn’t quite as pristine or unrestored as I’d hoped, and the tonearm suffers from the usual pot-metal issues. The underside of the mounting flange is chipped and shimmed with camera film, and the ball bearings had long since taken flight from their rightful home in the needle bar. The motor also showed signs of being monkeyed with. I soon gave up on it and relegated it to being a nice piece of furniture, but lately I’ve had the urge to dig into it and get it running right again.

The first step has been tackling the pot metal reproducer and back bracket. I replaced the 16 ball bearings in the needle bar, shimming them with thin slices of player piano tubing, and that made a huge difference. However, they don’t seem to be sitting quite right, no matter how much I’ve tried reseating them, and I’ve had a few go flying despite the washers. The needle also doesn’t feel quite as compliant in one direction as it does the other, which doesn’t seem right. Still, there’s no buzzing or blasting that would indicate something is *horribly* wrong. As for the back bracket, it’s still in one piece, but it has some surface cracks and there is some (very minor) vertical play in the tonearm. Would it be prudent to replace these with the new nickel-plated castings available from The Phonograph Shop, or are these pot metal parts still serviceable?

Once I’ve dealt with the pot metal parts, I plan on tackling the motor. It looks like someone was in here before me, and put a nice dent into the barrel when they presumably tried to regrease the springs. Whatever they put in there is dried up now, and I get a nasty KATHUNK every so often. Other than that, it seems to run strongly. How hard is it to service a two-spring motor? I’ve been considering picking up one of the several sad-looking Victor VV-IV’s available locally, just so I can practice on a single-spring motor first, but that could just be a budding collector instinct.

[audiophile102]

Here are some videos on You Tube to help you service the motor. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLESh ... -nxJPasdsj
Here are written instructions to service the reproducer. http://www.pixelshelf.com/~wyatt/rebuil ... honic.html
The effort involved might seem daunting, but once you have it all dialed in, many hours of musical pleasure will result. It's also fun to learn something new. I had to replace the back bracket and reproducer for my 8-12 to work correctly. Since your machine was free to begin with, you're way ahead. Good luck!

[Inigo]

It looks like the lid of the spring barrel is completely out of its place. You shouldn't wind up the motor on this condition, the springs are strong and something can slip and damage the gears and something more. That lid is needed in position to center that end of the barrel and hold it in place. That lid should be inside the barrel, and closed with a thick wire circlip that in your motor seems to be missing, no doubt, as it fixes the lid inside the outer end of the barrel.

[coyote]

I presume the spring barrel should look like those shown below (from an 8-12) with the clips removed. Even with undamaged barrels, the "lid" can be quite tough to insert far enough into the barrel so that there is enough lip for the wire retainer to fit into. In my experience, the tolerances are very tight, so any extra grease or rise in the spring will not allow the lid to sit flush.

Some have had success reinforcing the back bracket with JB Weld or whatever, but I always opted for replacements.

If the soundbox issues still persist, you can always send it off to Wyatt for restoration. These can be very fiddly and sometimes it just takes a person with more experience with them to get it functioning properly.

IMG_0847.jpg (199.5 KiB) Viewed 959 times

IMG_0848.jpg (146.17 KiB) Viewed 959 times

[Ortho4-7]

Oh gosh! That’s unsettling, to say the least. Are these snap rings available anywhere, or am I better off sourcing a new spring barrel from a parts motor?

Edit: just saw that The Phonograph Shop has some available for a whopping $2.99/ea. Hopefully that should fit.

[JerryVan]

As mentioned above, removing & re-installing the spring barrel lid can be tricky even when everything is in good condition. Your best bet for that spring barrel is to replace it, unless you are expert at straightening bent and mangled metal.

Your tone arm back bracket appears to be better than most. I can't see why it couldn't still function. The reproducer is best left to an expert, such as Wyatt Marcus. Proper placement of the 16 ball bearings is something of an art, let alone disassembling a pot metal Orthophonic reproducer to install new gaskets.

[JerryVan]

Oh gosh! That’s unsettling, to say the least. Are these snap rings available anywhere, or am I better off sourcing a new spring barrel from a parts motor?

Edit: just saw that The Phonograph Shop has some available for a whopping $2.99/ea. Hopefully that should fit.

The snap ring will do you no good until you have a good spring barrel to place it in.

[Inigo]

Better to change the barrel for another in good shape. That bent border could prevent from setting the lid and circlip properly. Just ask for an empty barrel for a no.32 motor also named Burton two spring motor.

[Ortho4-7]

The snap ring will do you no good until you have a good spring barrel to place it in.

Understood, I’ll add that to my “shopping list”!

[Curt A]

As far as the pot metal back bracket is concerned - it's "serviceable" until it isn't. While replica parts are available, you should order one. Then if you need it, you have it. They have not always been available and there is no guarantee of future availability...