A serious question on a sensitive topic

[Django]

Erasing history doesn't change history. This has been discussed before with some collectors saying these cylinders/records should be destroyed. Destroying coon song cylinders and tearing down statues does not rewrite history. Acknowledging our history both good and bad is healthy and can change our future.

Preserving monuments that were erected as a tribute to the racist and immoral old South only distorts history. Claiming Southern pride and erecting statues to celebrate those that fought to defend slavery has nothing to do with preserving history and everything to do with glorifying white supremacy.

I do think that “coon songs” should be preserved as an historic record of poor taste, ignorance and proof that racism was (and is), embedded in the culture of this country. I oppose removing such strong evidence of widespread racism.

"glorifying white supremacy" OMG! As I said previously, You are free to have your opinion and I am free to have mine. Have a great evening.

Ah, the old passive-aggressive approach. I never thought that the Confederacy, slavery and Jim Crow all being linked to white supremacy was a matter of “opinion”. Maybe you have “alternative facts”.

Yes, these statues honor and glorify Confederates and their primary cause of enslaving people of color. How is that not glorifying white supremacy? It is no different than a German American showing their German pride by erecting a flattering statue of Hitler and displaying a Nazi flag.

https://www.atlantahistorycenter.com/le ... onfederacy.

[DanP58]

Why can’t these discussions stay at the coffee shop or bar ? Everybody has an opinion and as far as I concerned keep them to yourself. Let’s keep this forum what it’s about phonograph machines , records and comradery and enjoy the hobby. Stop the whining!
Dan

[phonograph guy3435]

I think that we shouldn't destroy them but look back on them and see how much more we can improve than them.

[Django]

Why can’t these discussions stay at the coffee shop or bar ? Everybody has an opinion and as far as I concerned keep them to yourself. Let’s keep this forum what it’s about phonograph machines , records and comradery and enjoy the hobby. Stop the whining!
Dan

This is a forum, so sometimes uncomfortable conversations and disagreements are by its nature, an important part of the process. Remaining silent and trying not to rock the boat in the face of racism only emboldens the racist. The lost cause, states rights and Southern pride arguments need to be answered and called out for what they are. You don’t erect statues to honor those that fought directly against human rights without offending people that care about all people. I would gladly be removed from this group before turning a blind eye to the atrocity of slavery, racism and the old South.

An important part of this hobby is the preservation and studying of the history. This part of our history is shameful, (the “coon songs”), but as I said, I believe that it should be preserved as evidence of widespread and accepted racism. Erecting monuments to, and naming military bases for those that wanted to enshrine the atrocity of slavery is a glorified distortion of history. The statues were not erected during the time of the Civil War. Most were erected in opposition of basic freedoms for people of color well after the Civil War.

We have not come as far as many people claim and I think that our society is in a steep decline. This is not a time to remain silent. The stakes are too great.

[Raphael]

[/quote]

This is a forum, so sometimes uncomfortable conversations and disagreements are by its nature, an important part of the process. Remaining silent and trying not to rock the boat in the face of racism only emboldens the racist. The lost cause, states rights and Southern pride arguments need to be answered and called out for what they are. You don’t erect statues to honor those that fought directly against human rights without offending people that care about all people. I would gladly be removed from this group before turning a blind eye to the atrocity of slavery, racism and the old South.

An important part of this hobby is the preservation and studying of the history. This part of our history is shameful, (the “coon songs”), but as I said, I believe that it should be preserved as evidence of widespread and accepted racism. Erecting monuments to, and naming military bases for those that wanted to enshrine the atrocity of slavery is a glorified distortion of history. The statues were not erected during the time of the Civil War. Most were erected in opposition of basic freedoms for people of color well after the Civil War.

We have not come as far as many people claim and I think that our society is in a steep decline. This is not a time to remain silent. The stakes are too great.
[/quote]

I agree with you 100%, no ands, ifs or buts.

Several members (myself included) are very much interested in this evolving discussion. Those that are uncomfortable with the intellectual aspect of this thread can simply tune out without trying to silence those that wish to continue. I, for one, have learned a few things and that is what a forum should be about.

Raphael

[Django]

This is a forum, so sometimes uncomfortable conversations and disagreements are by its nature, an important part of the process. Remaining silent and trying not to rock the boat in the face of racism only emboldens the racist. The lost cause, states rights and Southern pride arguments need to be answered and called out for what they are. You don’t erect statues to honor those that fought directly against human rights without offending people that care about all people. I would gladly be removed from this group before turning a blind eye to the atrocity of slavery, racism and the old South.

An important part of this hobby is the preservation and studying of the history. This part of our history is shameful, (the “coon songs”), but as I said, I believe that it should be preserved as evidence of widespread and accepted racism. Erecting monuments to, and naming military bases for those that wanted to enshrine the atrocity of slavery is a glorified distortion of history. The statues were not erected during the time of the Civil War. Most were erected in opposition of basic freedoms for people of color well after the Civil War.

We have not come as far as many people claim and I think that our society is in a steep decline. This is not a time to remain silent. The stakes are too great.
[/quote]

I agree with you 100%, no ands, ifs or buts.

Several members (myself included) are very much interested in this evolving discussion. Those that are uncomfortable with the intellectual aspect of this thread can simply tune out without trying to silence those that wish to continue. I, for one, have learned a few things and that is what a forum should be about.

Raphael
[/quote]

One of my favorite quotes: “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

[edisonplayer]

My late friend Arthur Pare and I talked about this issue.He told me that in those days it was the common thing.You can't judge it by today's standards.edisonplayer.

[Django]

My late friend Arthur Pare and I talked about this issue.He told me that in those days it was the common thing.You can't judge it by today's standards.edisonplayer.

That rationale can be applied to many behaviors. Not everyone, especially the targets of the racism, were amused or accepting.

[OrthoFan]

As noted, this is a serious as well as sensitive topic. I did some web searching and found various opinions echoing those expressed here, both on forums and the media -- https://www.motherjones.com/media/2016/ ... lectibles/

There are also whole fields of study; as one example, Jim Crow Museum of Racist Imagery -- https://jimcrowmuseum.ferris.edu/

I have a few "coon song" type records in my relatively small collection, as well as songs that may not really be classified in the genre, but express the same sensibilities, such as Paul Whiteman's "Mississippi Mud".***

OrthoFan

*** An amusing side-note, when I first played this for a friend of mine, she burst out laughing, not because of the stereotypical images the lyrics perpetuate, but because she mistook the word "feet" for "meat", which I need not explain to those familiar with the lyrics.

[slammer]

I had to read up a bit more on coon songs, I had heard about them over the years but was not really interested in the topic.
However since this thread opened it has been on my mind.
Growing up in England in the sixties you had the black and white minstrel show on the telly and actors and singers obviously in blackface. You were brought up on a diet of words for other ethnicities that will get you in trouble in the 21st century
(Look up Bernhard Manning on youtube for an idea) or even Spike Milligan "the pakistani Dalek" for instance.
One can´t simply ignore these things and pretend they did not happen, for as one poster had mentioned; "those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it!" (Attributed to Gorbachev)
So what do you do with unsavory things from history? That they happened is undoubtable but to understand the why you have to know the wider context, without that the historical items we have in the museums and history books are meaningless. Sadly the topic of history is one of the first things to be dropped from the school curriculum when times get hard.
I now live in Germany and that has it ´s own set of rather unique problems related to history, there is not much left from that period and I believe that what little remains should be preserved and recently I got into a discussion with a group of younger guys who have not had the historical background we had at school. For instance it was compulsory back then to visit a concentration camp, Dachau was the one we went to. Such a visit changes you profoundly. Today it is not compulsory and you tend to get two opposing sides. "What was so wrong with the Nazis?" A view that coincides with the rise of the right in Germany and the others who simply have no interest and don´t or don´t want to understand why it is so important to learn these things. They were arguing that they remains have no value and should be demolished.
I disagree.
I suppose it is the same in other countries, American has it´s inability to reconcile with the past. Britain simply cant understand why the British empire was a bad thing, read up on operation legacy if you wish. Germany, well occupation is a verb and an adjective. Belgians in Leopold´s Congo, Mau Mau, another British booboo. Spain, France, Oh heck the list is endless.
Should it all be swept under the table?
From me a resounding NO!