Edisonic vs. Orthophonic shootout

[shoshani]

FWIW, Gus Frederick's venerable Wolverine Antique Music Society page has something similar, written probably more years ago than I (or he) care(s) to think about by Peter Fraser, who is otherwise the person who probably knows more about Cheney machines than anyone else alive.

http://www.shellac.org/wams/wpete08.html

Edit: I just noticed (or re-noticed) that the article is in the form of an answer to a question. The question looks very much like one I might well have asked, back in the late 90s.

[drh]

FWIW, Gus Frederick's venerable Wolverine Antique Music Society page has something similar, written probably more years ago than I (or he) care(s) to think about by Peter Fraser, who is otherwise the person who probably knows more about Cheney machines than anyone else alive.

http://www.shellac.org/wams/wpete08.html

Edit: I just noticed (or re-noticed) that the article is in the form of an answer to a question. The question looks very much like one I might well have asked, back in the late 90s.

Funny thing--this very article planted the seeds leading to mine, although I'd last looked at it years ago. I remember seeing it 'way back when and thinking that it didn't really answer the question--the Edison machine wasn't an Edisonic; the records were different; and we needed some way to hear the results of a test for ourselves, not just an author's description of them. Ideas for addressing those issues immediately started simmering on a back burner. Fast forward to 2024, and, although not always deliberately, at last I managed to get a Credenza and an Edisonic with restored reproducers in the same room, taking care of the first issue; to latch onto the same recording in the two formats, taking care of the second; and to learn how to make videos and post them to the Internet (something that was not as much of an option back when the original article came out), taking care of the third. From there, it was just a matter of recording the test and writing it up. Not perfect, necessarily, but the best I can manage, and I hope instructive!

[CarlosV]

FWIW, Gus Frederick's venerable Wolverine Antique Music Society page has something similar, written probably more years ago than I (or he) care(s) to think about by Peter Fraser, who is otherwise the person who probably knows more about Cheney machines than anyone else alive.

http://www.shellac.org/wams/wpete08.html

Edit: I just noticed (or re-noticed) that the article is in the form of an answer to a question. The question looks very much like one I might well have asked, back in the late 90s.

Very interesting article, that more or less explains the reasons for the Edisonic design to be so backward compared to the contemporary competitors. I have both a Schubert and a Credenza located in the same room and almost side-by-side, and as the others stated, the Credenza response is much better than the Edisonic. This is mostly due to the horn, which in Edison's case is an expanded version of the prior conic design, that has a much more limited response than the Western Electric exponential design of the Credenza. The soundbox may also contribute to the limitation, being virtually identical to the one developed for the acoustic records. That said, this comparison extrapolates the mere shootout of different machines, because the same record cannot be played on both without adapters. Therefore the quality of the recording becomes a factor in this comparison: Edison records reached a quality in the acoustic recording that surpasses all other companies, Victor included, but when we listen to electric recordings, they do not sound very good, with problems of microphone distortion and balance between instruments that the others like Columbia and Victor had already solved by the time Edison decided to make them. Moreover, as the article mentions, there is only a limited sample of electric Edison records, which limits the reach of the comparison. To my ears, some electric Edisons with small groups like a solo singer or a range-limited instrument sound quite comparable to an equivalent played in a Credenza, but band records tend to sound boomy, tinny and distorted in comparison with the Victors of the same period 1927-28 played in a Credenza.

[Ortho4-7]

As an obsolete tech enthusiast, this is the stuff dreams are made of! I’d never imagined that it would be possible to hear the same recording issued on a Diamond Disc AND a lateral 78, let alone played back on top-of-the-line period equipment. The Schubert is certainly no slouch for acoustic playback, but the strings are harsh and the woodwinds inaudible, making it hard to really follow the music. It honestly sounds just like an acoustic recording (albeit a nice one). The Credenza, by comparison, is a revelation, and the balance and sense of space are remarkable for such an early electrical recording.

Hopefully more collectors follow suit and perform more shootouts! Anyone out there got an Orthophonic, a Viva-Tonal, and a Panatrope in the same room?

[drh]

As an obsolete tech enthusiast, this is the stuff dreams are made of! I’d never imagined that it would be possible to hear the same recording issued on a Diamond Disc AND a lateral 78, let alone played back on top-of-the-line period equipment. The Schubert is certainly no slouch for acoustic playback, but the strings are harsh and the woodwinds inaudible, making it hard to really follow the music. It honestly sounds just like an acoustic recording (albeit a nice one). The Credenza, by comparison, is a revelation, and the balance and sense of space are remarkable for such an early electrical recording.

Hopefully more collectors follow suit and perform more shootouts! Anyone out there got an Orthophonic, a Viva-Tonal, and a Panatrope in the same room?

Glad you enjoyed! I can't help you with an Orthophonic/Viva-Tonal/Panatrope shootout, but I did write a similar article (with companion video) a while back comparing three different open horn machines. It's here: https://www.tnt-audio.com/vintage/copucornia_e.html

[Viva-voce]

Hi David,

I read your article with great interest. I prefer the sound of the Credenza. It really was something and still sounds impressive today.
I have always enjoyed your articles, they are scholarly, well-researched, and written in a very pleasant manner. And my favourite is the comparison of the two best belt-driven vintage turntables for playing 78’s. Spot-on!

Thank you for these contributions,

Steven.