What records play on a Victrola ?

xtal_01 · Post by **xtal_01** » Sun Apr 14, 2024 4:04 pm

OK, I know that sounds like a dumb question but this is my first machine and I have never seen one (or heard one) in person.

I was given a box of records with my machine (1909 L door VV-XVI) but I found some interesting ones on ebay.

Were all 78's made for gramophones or as I am guessing were later ones made for an electronic pickup needle?

How can you tell the difference?

Is there a cut off date?

My wife saw one listed on ebay ... Andrew Sisters on Decca released 1945 (under material it is listed as Shellac). I am guessing this is too new and will not play on my machine.

Trying to find out what I am looking for.

Thanks so much .... Mike

Curt A · Post by **Curt A** » Sun Apr 14, 2024 7:13 pm

Mike, your machine was made to play pre 1930 (generally) acoustically recorded shellac records with single use steel needles. Not all 78s are "acoustic" (recorded through a recording horn) or made of shellac. After the general cutoff date of 1930 records began to be "electrically" recorded for playback on more modern electric players with more sensitive pickups or reproducers. To accommodate more advanced playback and recording methods, the composition of later records was changed from shellac to vinyl compositions which are softer and designed for lighter weight tonearms and playback cartridges. Although acoustic machines and reproducers are able to play electrically recorded records, it's not recommended to do so because of excessive wear from the weight and use of steel needles. Hope this helps some...

Further info:
https://forum.antiquephono.org/topic/13 ... m-the-40s/

Post by **JerryVan** » Sun Apr 14, 2024 7:13 pm

xtal_01 · Post by **xtal_01** » Sun Apr 14, 2024 8:00 pm

Awesome!

Several of the ones pointed out say "electronically recorded"

Does this mean they are still OK for my machine?

I see one dated 1945 also said "shellac" .... did they change the formula in the 30's so they are not as hard? I understand vinyl is out of the question.

Thanks so much !!!!!!!!

Mike

Post by **drh** » Sun Apr 14, 2024 11:04 pm

The list of eBay examples has a lot that I would not consider for a Victrola from the period of yours. Different strokes, and all that, I suppose.

I would not play any electrically recorded 78 on a 1909 Victrola. For guidance, a few tips, not close to exhaustive, that *I'd* suggest would be these:

Any Victor record made by the Victor Talking Machine Company *unless* it has a VE in an oval in the deadwax (area between grooves and label). VE marks it as electrically recorded. Most have the so-called "scroll" label (like the one here http://www.denvernightingale.com/labels/vic26.html), but during the transition period some had the earlier "batwings" style that normally would be acoustic. VE is an infallible guide, because Victor was required so to mark and pay a royalty for all records made with its licensed Western Electric recording process.

Any Columbia record with the word "graphophone" on the label.

Any red-colored Vocalion. Any Brunswick that has a black and white, green and white, or gold and white label with a red shield.

Lyric by Lyrophone *unless* it's vertical cut, but vertical Lyrics are sufficiently uncommon that you're unlikely to stumble on one unbeknownst.

Little Wonder.

Any Opera Disc. Any Operaphone.

I *think* you're safe with any Harmony. OKeh not referencing CBS or showing hints of electric recording is probably also--well, OK. Again, some of the very early ones were vertical cut, but again those are uncommon.

No Victor referencing RCA on the label. No Columbia or OKeh referencing CBS. No Columbia having the words "Viva Tonal" on the label. None from these houses with a little W in a circle in the deadwax--Columbia's equivalent of Victor's VE.

No Edison. No Pathé except those marked as Actuelle. (You'll actually destroy the other Pathé acoustics if you try to play them with steel needles, and as vertical cut records they will give you no or next to no musical sound on a Victrola.) No Rishell. No Rex that references sapphire on the label; these had the Pathé cut.

No Decca. No Mercury.

If an off-brand label has an E in a circle on the label, chances are it's electric and too late for your purposes. Of course, if it references "electric recording," that's all you need to know.

The foregoing is all for US labels, and it's far, far from a complete list of things that are suitable for a 1909 L-door Victrola. Lots of little off labels purveying dance or other popular music came and went during or partially during the acoustic era. Foreign, particularly English, disks are a whole other bag of cats, and I'll leave it to our friends in the UK to sort those out.

xtal_01 · Post by **xtal_01** » Sun Apr 14, 2024 11:20 pm

Fantastic!

It makes a lot more sense to me now!

Like I said I have three boxes of records that came with the player ... I have not even touched them yet ... don't even know what they are.

I just saw many on ebay and wanted to know what would and what would not play correctly.

Thanks so very much !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mike

NateThorne · Post by **NateThorne** » Tue Dec 03, 2024 7:18 pm

Many years ago, while traveling through Europe, I visited a casino (I don’t remember the city, but I’m sure it’s listed on this site) and I think I saw this exact model of gramophone playing music that was definitely recorded after WWII or even in the 1960s. Is it possible that they replaced something in the gramophone's mechanism? Or am I just mistaken about the record?

Post by **Marco Gilardetti** » Wed Dec 04, 2024 4:41 am

No need to replace anything in the mechanism: it can natively play all 78 RPM records ever made.

Post by **epigramophone** » Wed Dec 04, 2024 10:07 am

Provided that the soundbox is in good condition and is properly adjusted, your Victrola should play electrically recorded shellac 78's without damaging them, but it will not reproduce them to their full potential. For that you will need a post-1925 machine.
Rock hard gaskets and stiff stylus bar springs, the results of lack of maintenance, are the main causes of record damage.

OrthoFan · Post by **OrthoFan** » Wed Dec 04, 2024 10:17 am

NateThorne wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2024 7:18 pm Many years ago, I think I saw this exact model of gramophone playing music that was definitely recorded after WWII or even in the 1960s. Is it possible that they replaced something in the gramophone's mechanism? Or am I just mistaken about the record?

With a few exceptions--notably India ( http://www.cool78s.com/ )--the last "78s" were released in the late 1950s. By that time, virtually all of the manufacturers had switched to the vinyl 45 and 33 ⅓ rpm format.

xtal_01 wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 11:20 pm Like I said I have three boxes of records that came with the player ... I have not even touched them yet ... don't even know what they are.

While it's not completely perfect, a good cross-check reference to see when a specific record was recorded, you can use this site: https://www.78discography.com/ which displays the records by serial number, title etc. Oftentimes, you can check by simply going to Google and typing in the record's title, label name and the number stamped on the record. The early electrically recorded records--those made before about 1930--should play okay on your Victrola -- http://victor-victrola.com/Victrola%20Horns.htm -- providing the reproducer or sound box has been overhauled with fresh diaphragm gaskets, and a new, soft, back flange.

What records play on a Victrola ?

What records play on a Victrola ?

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