HMV Oil Bath Motors - Do they ever break?

[Garret]

So I’m looking at one of the big HMV gramophones, and it has an oil bath motor. However the motor runs very sluggishly. There also seemed to be a cover missing on the speed control?

Do these motors ever break? Is there anything I should be worried about in these motors? A couple photos are attached.

Thanks for your consideration.

Garret

[epigramophone]

If you are a CLPGS member and have access to back numbers of the magazine, the No.52 oil bath motor and it's problems are are covered in "For the Record" No.33, pages 26 and 27, Spring 2010. For copyright reasons I cannot reproduce it here.

[Sidewinder]

I have heard that if you transport it incorrectly eg lay it down in the back of your car, you may have a lot of oil to clean up from your car boot!

[Garret]

If you are a CLPGS member and have access to back numbers of the magazine, the No.52 oil bath motor and it's problems are are covered in "For the Record" No.33, pages 26 and 27, Spring 2010. For copyright reasons I cannot reproduce it here.

Are there any fatal flaws to which I should pay attention? I was a member; I didn’t realize this was in the magazine….

[Steve]

If you are a CLPGS member and have access to back numbers of the magazine, the No.52 oil bath motor and it's problems are are covered in "For the Record" No.33, pages 26 and 27, Spring 2010. For copyright reasons I cannot reproduce it here.

Are there any fatal flaws to which I should pay attention? I was a member; I didn’t realize this was in the magazine….

I'd hardly think of anything as a "fatal flaw" when most are running well after almost 100 years! I've heard that over-filled motors can have a tendency to flush the grease out of the spring barrels but my motor has been running silently for at least 20 years of my ownership so I'm not going to fuss over that one.

The oil pump lever can also freeze up if the piston has ceased up in the casting. These can be freed by gently hammering. Mine was ceased when I bought my 202 but I managed to free it easily enough.

[epigramophone]

Are there any fatal flaws to which I should pay attention? I was a member; I didn’t realize this was in the magazine….

The only "fatal flaw" I know of was mentioned by the late Mike Field. As Steve says, the oil pump can seize from disuse.
In extreme cases the lack of oil can cause the winding ratchet to slip, allowing the springs to unwind violently. I have seen a picture of the resulting gear damage when this occurred. It would be difficult and expensive to repair.

Another oil related issue is the apparent lack of any surviving HMV instructions as to the grade and quantity of oil to be used.

[Garret]

Hello all,

Thank you for the comments.

So, if I may, what could cause the motor to be sluggish and turn at low speed, eg. ~33rpm?

Sincerely,

Garret

[Garret]

Is there ever an issue where the speed control knob can be somehow disconnected? On this one moving the speed control knob doesn’t seem to do anything; it feels a bit loose in a way. I’ve never seen the inside, so have no idea what this could mean.

Thanks for your thoughts. I realize these questions are probably annoying, but as much as I want a 202, I don’t want to buy a dog.

[CarlosV]

Is there ever an issue where the speed control knob can be somehow disconnected? On this one moving the speed control knob doesn’t seem to do anything; it feels a bit loose in a way. I’ve never seen the inside, so have no idea what this could mean.

Thanks for your thoughts. I realize these questions are probably annoying, but as much as I want a 202, I don’t want to buy a dog.

Hi Garret
As you know - and heard - I have one of these. The previous owner told me that he had to replace springs at one point, and indicated that this motor is extremely difficult to service, differently from the standard HMVs. I never opened mine, as it is working fine, but I saw drawings and photos of its internal parts - they were posted in this forum some years ago, but may have disappeared since. Add to that the scarceness of replacement parts if there is the need to replace one. Therefore, please take that into account in your decision to buy it. You may find a replacement motor, they are rare but can still be found if you are lucky.

[Steve]

Based solely upon what I'm reading in this thread I'd perhaps advise anyone to throw caution to the wind and slightly over-fill the bath with oil rather than under fill it. There is an indentation in the casting which I used as a guide for the oil level. It's been 20 years since I took mine apart so apologies for my hazy memory.

I used a motor vehicle oil in my 202 as it was bone dry when I bought it. I'm sure the oil is too viscous and way over the top for the required task but (touching wood) it hasn't let me down in 20 years and runs perfectly smoothly and silently. To be fair it has had quite a lot of use, especially in my first 5 years of ownership.